You remember how many times Elm and the other Harlowites have uttered those most sacred words of American jurisprudence: "Innocent Until Prooven Guilty?"
LOL, might as well ask how many stars are in the sky.
Well! TODAY we see how sincere they about that.
Thus scrivens Elm:
"As far as I am concerned I truly do think that they are going to be railroaded in to prison for life and or even killed for this crime."
Here's the definition of the word Railroaded: "INFORMAL. send along quickly or too quickly to be fair."
This trial is not until March of 2008! And the lawyers can get continuances, generally speaking, until the cows come home.
So, there is no "railroading" going on...no, this is the clearest sign yet that the Harlowites don't really give a damn about "I.U.P.G." At least the U.P.G. part.
Here is what I wrote in reply to this outrage, over on Elm's blog; it is worthy of being highlighted here, in it's very own blog post:
"You see? I KNEW IT.
I KNEW "Innocent Until Prooven Guilty" was a load off bullcrap, when coming out of your guys mouths.
I knew it! Said it all along...EVEN if Harlow pleads, or is found guilty (whatever), you guys would just shift to Plan C: Harlow, the Unjustly Convicted!
You see, this is one of the reasons it made my skin crawl every time you or Jakester uttered these sacred words...it's because I knew...I could just SEE the insincerity every time you guys wrote I.U.P.G.
You guys never did give a shit about the U.P.G. part, didja? Oh no! It was the "I" part, the "I" forever! Even after Harlow is "P.G.ed" he's "I". Oh what a LOL!
See everyone? I TOLD YA SO! :-D"
29 comments:
Yup,
"Railroaded into prison for life or even killed for this crime" is IMO way out there.
I have always believed that everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter what it is, no matter if I agree or disagree [like jim said, as long as nobody is hurt]
I would not want anybody to try and force me to believe what they believe. I also feel strongly against people who "bully", name call etc. people who do not share their same views. Personally, it would not affect my opinions, or a friendship with someone who did not share my views, actually that happens with my better half often.
Jim--
Why the shock? These Harlowites have never been dealing with a full deck and have no intentions of doing so now. The Harlowites spout the legal fine points of the Constitution and its due process provisions but have no regard for the meaning in the practice of those due process rights.
As a sign of a fair trial to be contradicted by the Harlowites, the judge in this murder case has taken great pains to seal certain items in the safe, not to be opened until trial. The judge could not be anymore impartial than this.
The jury is not even seated yet, but according to that "keen" mind, Elm, the defendants are being railroaded. What a load of horse shit!
Hmmm...
Kinda funny how a blogger who could not quite figure out how to delete posts a couple days ago, suddenly discovers the ability.
LOL!
thank you Jim for th comment I relly enjoyed it. you made my day.
Jim you just cant seem to get anything right. you took what I said out of context and tried to make it seem that I don't beleive in IUPG. Well you are wrong about that and here is the exchange that was onm my blog where you base your latest load of crap on.
quickysrt said...
Elm,
I read your outline, and I see a fairly good rundown of what we know so far. It points of Harlow and Joe's guilt.
Your differing perception of your own evenhanded unbiased run through of the basic story points to me a desperate hope and a blind faith you must have. I think the hope part is fine, we all have a little hope I guess.
I notice that you don't even say "I know it looks bad" like even Harlow noted. You simply don't think it looks that bad and gloomy, and that the evidence is just simply not too damning.
I would be more inclined to see your view as having clarity going for it if you were to say "I know it looks awful, I am VERY worried, but I believe they are innocent because I have known Harlow for 15 years and he could not swat a fly, step on ant trails, and he even let a mouse go free that was caught in a trap in his garage, and so he put it outside. And I pray that a bit more evidence in favor of innocence materializes. Because otherwise a couple of innocent guys are going to be put to death.
But you simply do not have this level headed reasoning behind your hope and faith at this point in time.
November 15, 2007 3:07 AM
elmysterio said...
Gee whiz quickysrt I guess I should have you ghost write for me. Maybe then Joe and Harlow will get the sympathy they need to be aquited.
I guess I am just tired of all of the opinonated people out there who think that I should be thinking the way they do.
As far as I am concerned I truly do think that they are going to be railroaded in to prison for life and or even killed for this crime.
Just because I don't say it does not discount from the fact that I think this whole case is based on total bullshit and sketchy evidence made to fit the crime.
You have your way of showing how you feel about them and I choose to not say the depressing truth about what is going to happen.
Do I have hope that something will change what we all seem to feel is the outcome of this case? you are damn right I do.
But it just seems that too many agencies are involved and they all want to save face for the fact that they did not arrest Bryan when they should have and now their main witness to the crimes he committed is dead.
The feds should have arrested Bryan when Sean Lockhart made his claims against him but they did not and do you know why?
Because they thought they could catch a bigger fish but through all of this they still came up empty handed.
Now they are pissed and someone must fry and I guess two hookers from Virginia will just have to do.
So you can sit there and gloat about how you know they did it because all of the evidence points their way but you really don't know shit because were not there and niether was I for that matter.
The one thing I have is my faith in the justice system and the bill of rights.
So go ahead and proclaim their guilt but I will maintain that it has not been proven to me yet and I will keep my faith.
November 15, 2007 3:55 AM
jim said...
"As far as I am concerned I truly do think that they are going to be railroaded in to prison for life and or even killed for this crime. "
You see? I KNEW IT.
I KNEW "Innocent Until Prooven Guilty" was a load off bullcrap, when coming out of your guys mouths.
I knew it! Said it all along...EVEN if Harlow pleads, or is found guilty (whatever), you guys would just shift to Plan C: Harlow, the Unjustly Convicted!
You see, this is one of the reasons it made my skin crawl every time you or Jakester uttered these sacred words...it's because I knew...I could just SEE the insincerity every time you guys wrote I.U.P.G.
You guys never did give a shit about the U.P.G. part, didja? Oh no! It was the "I" part, the "I" forever! Even after Harlow is "P.G.ed" he's "I". Oh what a LOL!
See everyone? I TOLD YA SO! :-D
November 15, 2007 8:35 AM
elmysterio said...
Jim it would appear that your ability to comprehend logic and critical thought are deeply in need of some help. You apparently are so dead set on making everyone seem stupid that you forget and often make yourself look stupid in the process. I never said that I believed that Harlow and Joe were guilty. Let me clear it up for you in simple terms and then maybe you will get it.
Harlow and Joe are not guilty and it has not been proven in a court of law that they are. The ruling of Judge Jim from the court of Shitmore Mountain does not count.
The Police and Fed.’s want them to be guilty and that is a fact.
The evidence is staked against them.
And they will be railroaded in this case.
As far as I am concerned the facts of what the Fed’s the Police and the Prosecutors want us to believe have not been proven.
I Don’t believe they are guilty of this crime, is that to hard for you to understand.
November 15, 2007 12:28 PM
I know you most likely won't post it but you know what I don't give a shit anymore about anythin that you have to say.
Why would I not post it?
Granted, you are copying a lot of old stuff, and hence being kinda repetitive...but that's not really a crime against any of my 3 posted blog rules.
I guess you dance kinda close to calling me stupid outright...but I'm in a good mood today, so we'll say it's in the boundary!
And for the record, you do not believe in I.U.P.G. That is now known.
As I pointed out in my subsequent post (which I note you deleted) you believe that Harlow is innocent even if prooven guilty (I.E.I.P.G.). This is shown by your "railroading" comment. It does not really matter to you if Harlow pleads guilty or is convicted, does it?
Oh no...the new Harlow talking points, fresh off your blog today, is in case Harlow is found guilty (by plea or trial)...he was RAILROADED! Hence, he's I.E.I.P.G!
Never mind the facts, which show that he is not being railroaded (see above).
That's my point. I.U.P.G. was a fraud with you and Jakester and Ree and all the other Harlowites, all along. The REAL name of the game was I.E.I.P.G.
With a plea by Harlow rumored imminent, you guys are now paving the way for your new post-conviction martyrdom of Harlow propaganda campaign: Innocent and RAILROADED! A campaign I have LONG predicted was in the works...
Et voila, here it is! As predicted.
Harlow does not have a plea deal. that is a trumped up lie. Joe is talking more shit just as usual.
Since when have you ever believed anything that Joe says.
Oh if forgot only when it serves your purpose.
I never base any opinion of mine on any posted utterance of Harlow or Joe. That would be foolish.
But there is a rumor of a deal now circulating (begun on bb's blog, as you know), and that's what I am referring to...the existant rumor itself, not so much my opinion of the rumor.
Oh and that is a good source of information. why don't you ask Harlow or his attorneys if there is a plea deal? or maybe that is just another falsehood that has been spread because of a slow news week.
I'm not relying on the source. I am just saying the rumor is out there. I have not opined on whether it may be true or not*.
Whether it is true or not was irrelevant to the point I was making. That being, the rumor is out there (rightly or wrongly)...and I think it is beginning to influence people's attitudes.
*Not that I don't have an opinion; but it is not necessary for me to state it at this time. So I haven't.
Everyone try to mind the no personal attack, no name-calling rule. Focus criticisms on the person's ideas, not the persons. Thanks! :-)
Much of what Elm has recently stated is reused (copied) from what V.J. and I were talking about a day earlier (concerning remote possibilities however unbelievable). I was the one who first used the term "railroaded."
Elm is grabbing at straws and trying to put together something smart. It's not worth debating someone with minimal understanding of the facts in this case, and fails to comprehend what the evidence so far means.
I don't even believe Elm believes his own B.S. He has simply jumped on a bandwagon, and lacks the confidence now to get off it, and try to find some truth.
We should not pick on the people that do not have great thinking and reasoning skills. He means no harm. And it all started because he just wanted to be a part of something. He took a chance at believing something, and failed to put the puzzle together. He has some missing pieces in his puzzle still. That is no crime right?
I agree with much you say Quicky.
I've been in the trenches with Elm from the start of all this. His shining achievement was (and still is) his Kocis timeline. It was (and still is) an invaluable and highly accurate tool for anyone who wants to closely study this case. A difficult and time-consuming job well done, that I cannot heap enough praise on.
So, early on, the undisputed expert in the Kocisphere was Elm.
His downfall began when he opted to communicate directly and privately with Harlow and Joe. At that point, despite his voluminous knowledge of all the known facts, he appears to have fallen under their Svengali-like spell and lost all ability to look at this case dispassionately.
His goal now is to conceive a theory of the crime, ANY theory, which fits all the known facts and declares Harlow and Joe innocent.
I have been very careful not to "berate" Elm for his logical errors, but merely to point them out, error by error...with the hope that he'd eventually snap out of his trance. Kinda like what happened with Julian.
Julian was another early blogger, quite prominent, who early on sided with Harlow and Joe. Until the arrest and affidavit went public. Then, he dumped Harlow and Joe like yesterday's garbage.
That's the difference between Julian and Elm. Julian knew when to cut his losses, admit he was wrong. Not so Elm.
Unfortunately my error pointing out method with Elm has not born fruit. It seems to only irk him. Perhaps more so if I had simply berated him. Sigh.
Jim thank you for the analysis. I really do appreciate it. You are a wealth of knowledge and I for one don't think that we could have come this far with out you.
As far as my views on this case they do differ from yours and I am ok with that. you seem to be the one with the problem in that area.
So I will just say lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. no hard feelings and lets just move on.
I will admit that I spoke with Joe and Harlow but they have no power over me as neither do you.
I have choosen my point of view from my analysis of the evidence and I find several things that just do not fit as well as they should.
That is why I am happy to wait and see what new evidence they produce for the trial.
jim,
You may be right and you gave credit where credit was definately due.
I feel in my heart of hearts that Elmysterio is a really GOOD person.
Whether misguided now or not, I do not believe his intentions have been to hurt people and for me that "good" person inside matters most. Just my opinion.
jin said....His downfall began when he opted to communicate directly and privately with Harlow and Joe.
...........
I find it strange that communication with the defendants could have this effect. I know Jim you said that no way would you do the same.
I guess you feel probably rightly that there is no insight or truth likely to be shown at this point from them. Perhaps when it is all over maybe.
"So I will just say lets agree to disagree and leave it at that. no hard feelings and lets just move on."
Yes good idea, lets move on.
I can assure you guys Elm is a good guy and a friend yes YOU all know where I stand on Joe & Harlow.
Elm and I talk all the time I listen and he listens
We agreed long ago to disagree BUT we are NOT DISAGREEABLE with each other.
I appreciate what Elm brought to the Kocisphere AND maybe we are all just a little tired and cranky this has been going on since January.
Absent an announcement I believe we will not learn much until Trial.
Hi Jim, dropped by to check out your blog, good job, I like it.
Hows things atop Mount Shitmore? :) All appears to be just fine.
A fatal error made early on by Elm was the accusation that Robert Wagner posts on these blogs. This idea came from deep within the Sean camp - that person eventually requested a truce till the trial is over. That same person fed Elm the FBI investigation story which he now takes back and says is not true, yet Elm insists on it still being true LOL.
I do not know why the Sean camp did this. They clearly had a reason. It backfired. Lies do that.
The truth will be out eventually. The sooner the better.
"Railroaded into prison for life or even killed for this crime"
UNREAL and more crap. As others point out, the trial has not even begun. His inconsistency is very telling on so many aspects.
It could be someone fed Elm an FBI investigation story, Elm ran with it and in the process embellished it considerably, and then the original source disclaimed the embellishments. I am beginning to suspect that might be the case.
We do know for a fact Sean and Grant tried to involve the FBI on the 2257 technicality with Cobra. The FBI response was basically "ho hum" BUT this acceptance (and ignoring) of a complaint letter could be portrayed as an FBI "investigation" of Cobra...if you define your terms broadly enough.
I suspect this is the kernal of truth from which those pesky black helicopters sprung from. It's simply imaginitive embellishments off of this one simple factual detail.
*IF* Sean did go to the feds and *IF* Sean was 17 at the time, I am stunned the FEDS did nothing about the complaint made.
It is because of those two *IFS* I do not believe what Sean and his CobraKiller claim.
You say:
"We do know for a fact Sean and Grant tried to involve the FBI on the 2257 technicality with Cobra."
I do not know this for a fact. I have seen no legal document to back up the claim. The word from two proven liars is not fact.
"I am stunned the FEDS did nothing about the complaint made."
I can't see any reason to be stunned at all. You can actually witness the FEDS non-action in action, right now. In real time!
Go to DeWayne's site. There you will a see a form letter, addressed to the FBI, whoever is in charge of 2257 enforcement. DeW's got his address, name and precise job title of the bureaucrat
in question, etc.
The body of the form letter is factual. It notifies said government official that there is this porn company out there (Cobra Video). That company lists a vacant lot as it's 2257 site (60 Midland Drive) and a dead man as it's custodian of record (B. Kocis).
I'm not a 2257 expert, but I am pretty sure you need a building as a place and a live person as a custodian to be compliant.
Now, DeWayne has sent this obviously factual violation letter to the proper governmental person, just as Brent and Grant "allegedly" did. Not only that...DeWayne has urged legions of fans to do likewise...and many fans posted doing so as well.
So, DeWayne and those other fan's letters are in effect an experiment..a GRAND experiment...into what happens when you try to replicate what Brent and Grant "say they" did...file a 2257 complaint with the Feds.
And the result of this grand experiment? What has been the Fed reaction?
NOTHING! Absolutely nothing!
I mean, LOL, I don't know how this debate point could have been more decisively prooven.
Thanks to DeWayne Grand Experiment, we now know that the current policy of the United States government is to ignore citizen tips of 2257 violations. The evidence of this policy is overwhelming. DeW's experiment leaves no doubt about this. You can see the experiment, and it's resulting non-action by the Feds...happening right now...in real time!
How many months has it been, DeWayne? Have you gotten ANY hint of ANY action being taken?
And since it was not just DeW sending in these letters, but lots of others...we know that the results of the experiment seem to be infinitely repeatable.
Thus, uh, no...there is simply no basis for being "stunned" on this question any more; no longer cause for ANY doubt as to the plausibility of Brent and Grant's original quixotic 2257 quest, and it's result.
Or more accurately, non-result.
Another 2257 violation I noticed recently: Boybatter. Elm posted recently about the rebirth of Boybatter under new management (the subject of a whole seperate: LOL! but we'll pass on that for now..) and guess what? Click on it's 2257 compliance link, and you get a dead page.
It seems to be fairly common knowledge out there that the Feds are slugs when it comes to 2257 enforcement.
You can be outraged at this I suppose, but stunned? No, the stun phase has long passed on this fact of life.
BB Just so you know it was not Dewayne who told me about the FBI investigation into Cobra Video. You seem to have gotten your wires crossed again. Oh and by the way you don't want to believe that Sean is just know 21 years old because it would shatter that fragile lie that you call the truth.
There is much more to this story than anyone person knows and I know for a fact that there was a FBI investigation in to the activities of Bryan Kocis. I do not care if you believe it or not BB.
Sure Elm, if you say so.
Jim comment 24 was brilliant and oh so true I am preparing a response to the U.S.Govt's non action concerning Cobra Video's 2257 & underage pornography.
So much more evidence is available of total US (& Pennsylvania)inaction that I am prepared to state,,,
Bryan Kocis & Robert Wagner got a pass alright, the same pass available to you & me.
Jim, You or I, can in fact hire 15,16 or 17 year old boys film them having BB gay sex and as long as we release said videos with a STATEMENT they were over 18 we are IMMUNE from prosecution!
As for 2257 not a worry we don't need no fucking records we JUST LIE and CLAIM we have the records!
Even better Jim if we choose to make 70% of our porn for the PRIVATE amusement of ourselves & pervy friends we do not Bother with 2257!
Sound like a sound business proposition for you Jim?
Ready to make some Gay Porn Cobra Style,Smooth Hairless and Bareback!
Chicken by The BUCKET FULL!
We Got the GREEN LIGHT from the MAN
The FBI doesn’t care!
Dept of Justice doesn’t care!
The Attorney General doesn’t care!
THEY HAVE SAID SO!
BY their Complicit Silence!
Mr.Oosterbaan does not care about underage Gay boys in porn either! Or ENFORCING FEDERAL Laws!
He obviously cares very little about his OATH to UPHOLD the Constitution & the LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES!
The ENTIRE Premise of Child Pornography laws & enforcement of 2257 regulations, is to ensure that all performers are over 18!
It is apparent Title 18 U.S.C. sec 2257 is a SMOKESCREEN, and is selectively enforced (when at all) and ONLY applies to females not Males!
So BB you were right Bryan did not get prosecuted for underage porn because the United States tacitly allows the production of Gay MALE Pornography involving Teenage boys 15 and older.
You think I sound bitter Jim?
No just disillusioned,,
but not surprised,,
When our corruption & decay permeates the White House on down it is Obvious we are no longer a nation of Laws and Justice, but of selective Political enforcement for purposes of political retribution.
Those who are well connected can purchase their IMMUNITY from Prosecution.
American Justice is for SALE, all that you require is the CASH & proper political CONNECTIONS!
Here the tinkling, the whispered twitters,,,
Mr.Oosterbaan, Bryan Kocis IS LAUGHING at YOUR INACTION!
Judge Conahan, Bryan Kocis whispers "Thank You ,,you da Judge!"
Yes Judge Michael Conahan Your service was INVALUABLE in ensuring the FUTURE VIABILITY of GAY BAREBACK PORN in America. By preventing the incarceration and conviction of Bryan Kocis for child pornography and rape in 2001!
For turning a blind eye to dozens of hours of seized gay porn, you could not even be bothered to ask for the Id’s why is that judge?
Maybe because you knew the answer to that question!
They were Underage! You said "it's impossible to tell visually their age",notice what you didn't say Judge?
That they all LOOKED OVER 18!
No you didn't use that phrase,,
Because they LOOKED UNDERAGE!
But you washed your hands like Pilate of the whole sordid mess or were you getting the feel of Bryans greasy money off your hands!
No matter YOU are the one who made the DEAL, who greased the skids so Lady Justice tripped and fell!
And what of the fair Upstanding Citizens of Luzerne County, Bryan Kocis sneers his contempt for you! You proved him right YOU did not care about underage gay boys or his operating an ILLEGAL pornography business for 6 years from his BASEMENT in a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood!
You all have a lot to be proud of
Mr.Oosterbaan
Judge Conahan
Luzerne County
From Hell,,,
You are all the source of his great amusement for you have ALL once again proven the adage
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
Dewayne you have made your point loud and clear.
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