What she had to say initially was, IMO, almost too good to be true: She was anti-Harlow and Joe! For some time now...but ***secretly***. Oh, she had helped them initially: a little three way phone call here, a website there...but she had now seen the light, she said. Harlow and Joe were guilty...guilty as sin! 'You were right all along, Jim' she flattered me. And she was now EAGER to play a starring role in the trial to convict them. Woohoo!
And INFO! That commodity we here in the Kocisphere cherish more than oxygen...INFO! She was ready to divulge all to us on these here blogs, she claimed. Could not wait to tell ALL she knew! And she knew plenty, she said. And dangled the promise of info in front of our eyes, like a drug dealer dangling a dime bag in the face of a junkie.
Hmmm. Well, as my momma always told me, if it's too good to be true, it probably isn't. So, needless to say I was a tad suspicious.
Then, within a few hours came the confirmation of my suspicions. This post showed up for approval:
"PRIVATE DO NOT POST.Now, I've known for a while Harlow supporters have dreamed of outing me for some time now. They have said as much. But try as they might, they've always failed (instead, in several amusing instances of poetic justice, it's been the lead outers who got outed...but I digress). So naturally, I recognized this for what it was: a trap to help track down my identity. Without going into excessive techno-detail on the matter, an email from me would have given out info very useful to someone sleuthing for my identity. I knew this.
DO YOU WANT TO HAVE SOME FUN WITH DAMON TODAY?I THINK IT IS TIME TO INTERVIEW DAMON , WHAT DO YOU THINK, I AM SURE BETWEEN THE TWO OF US WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME REALLY GOOD SHIT.
EITHER EMAIL ME AT alex53102@google.com or which ever way you want i think this would be a great one to touch on for the day and give damon some of his own shit back, what do you think?
Publish Reject (Renee) 4:43 PM"
Even after I reminded everyone that I've opted not to talk behind peoples' backs in private emails and chats, Renee was persistent:
"Are you busy, I have a suprise for damon but need to know if i can get some help from you or dewayne? can you email me at my email or open up a chat and i will tell you what i am up too.And when the DK angle failed to sway me, she came up with different pretexts:
thanks
Publish Reject (Renee) 8:09 AM"
"Jim you have just a few slight errors email me and we can go over them ok.These phishing attempts went on for some time, becoming increasingly strident, but I never took the bait. Eventually and reluctantly, she gave up.
alex53102@google.com http://kruezeratnight.blogspot.com/
Private do not post my email or this comment
Publish Reject (Renee) 8:30 PM"
But beyond trying to ferret out identities by pretending to be "one of us," what was she up to, I wondered? Rob, as we all know, was very vocal about her being less-than-honest from the get go...but while undoubtedly true, it still didn't fully explain why. I wanted to know why.
So I decided the best strategy was to play along. Let her talk, indeed, encourage her to talk! That way, we'd find out what her game was soon enough. Eventually, I figured, she would hang herself.
And this week, she hung herself.
Her self-confessed shenanigans in Luzerne County at the aborted hearing are already so well-documented in the comments two posts back for the need to go into much detail here; suffice to say they include blatant acts of tampering against prosecution witnesses, such as maliciously publicizing hotel arrangements, the lodging of frivolous complaints, and even one stalker-like incident of her shadowing three witnesses across the square to a public bookstore.
Add to that her accusation that DA Melnick manipulatively lied in a recent court filing ("...some people take things and manipulate them to what they want them to be, mr. melnick did this..."), combined with her continual efforts to destroy the credibility of key prosecution witnesses by insinuating they may be responsible for the death of Bryan Kocis (this behavior is even more egregious, when you consider that the DA has made the fact that the parties involved are NOT responsible for the death of Bryan Kocis a key element of the Commonwealth's case), and it becomes abundantly clear Renee Martin is NOT the loyal, pro-prosecution witness she now claims to be.
Taking all this together...the efforts to crack the identities of Harlow critics, the witness tampering, the public sabotaging of the prosecution's case...it seems apparent to me she was, AND still is, actively working to free Harlow and Joe. Now covertly and insidiously from the inside, rather than overtly from the outside.
And there you have it: The "why" wondered about. That folks, is her game.
And the DA knows this, naturally. That's why she was placed under bond, and remains under bond, as a witness hostile to the prosecution. I'm sure the DA's office would happily verify this to a reporter, if asked, were it not for the gag order they are currently under.
Besides the witness bond, the other reason she's been "cooperating" to such a minimal extent thus far (i.e., this hearing, production of documents) has been subpoenas, the threats of subpoenas, and the still more dire threat of prosecution for her role in the illegal three-way phone calls between herself, Harlow and Joe. Such phone calls could easily be considered crimes; obstruction of justice and conspiracy to commit perjury come readily to mind. Obviously, when Melnick told the media after Harlow and Joe were caught that he would not rule out any additional arrests in this case...he clearly had Renee Martin in his thoughts.
Now, I use the term "witness" to describe Renee Martin very loosely, because as I've said before, I doubt she'll be doing much real witnessing. By all indications (indeed, by Renee's own admission) her only function on the stand will be to authenticate the transcripts of her prison phone calls with Harlow and Joe. Like a trained seal, she'll bark "yup!" when asked if the transcripts are true and authentic, and then be excused from the stand.
Theoretically, the defense could call her back to the stand as a friendly witness, but this seems to me tactically unwise; she's such a loose cannon and a hothead that it won't take much skill in cross-examination by the prosecution to cause her to come unglued, and quickly turn her into a quivering Queeg-like pile of apoplectic goo; for example:
"Madame said...So, I think it's fair to say Stan the Merman will have more lines in Another Gay Sequel than Renee will have at the Kocis trial.
Please convey this message to the pedophile dewayne, Sean does not now or ever want your nasty ass, he will never want you, he has no use for you but to support his cause and he will throw you away when he is done with you and next thing to tell him is his threats on his blog go to the da in the morning and I will be filing charges against him, as you all say kentie is quilty of cyber stalking , lying and harassing people so is dewayne if kentie can go to jail so can you dewayne you are not by any means above the law. You shall find out that criminal charges have been filed against you and i will even be glad to give you the case number.
And as for all of your false accusations , you better have proof buddy cause the paper work is headed your way, do you know what a lawyer is? you will definaltey need it for defamation of character and all the other lies you put on your blog, caught on snapshot and printed and copy and pasted for saving ... As others cannot do you cannot defame someone , I did at no time defame sean , i have it in writing, what the fuck do you have you old worthless peice of shit, chasing after a 21 year old that wants nothing to do with you. Pass this on to the DA in the morning , that i personally am filing charges against you, i will also be filing a federal complaint here locally with the fbi agent that came to my home , maybe you should give him a call tomorrow he is listed on the witness list of 385 and have a talk with him after i file the complaint against your sick , worthless, pedophile ass.
Dont knock kentie or ng when you are the same thing as them and you cover it up by claiming to be a blogger.... ya right, big bullshit, and guess what i did not stay off your fucking blog either......... So leave the kiddies alone you old perv ."
Of course, that last quote brings me to my final point, and indeed, a sad one. For I fully realize what shall happen now; like Dewayne, I too shall be "reported" to the DA. And to the local FBI too! And will be sued for defamation and gawd knows what else as well, I imagine. I suppose I can expect this veritable hoard of lawmen and lawyers to show up my doorstop any day now, I am mortified to say.
For those of you at home keeping score, this should make me the third target of the Renee Martin Police Force. Dewayne was actually the second; the first was of course PC, in a memorable little incident just under a year ago today:
"Chat on 07/25/07:Yep, it looks grim for me, folks. Clearly I have just "fucked up big time."
me: Elm, we're getting ready to break the 'blessed' news... I'll explain more after the post.
9:12 PM eloise: whaT BLESSED NEWS?
me: as Reene calls it.
eloise: CALLS IT WHAT
9:13 PM me: You'll see... give me a bit... was just giving you a head's up as a friend.
eloise: OK9:17 PM me: I'll let you know when it's posted.
9:18 PM BTW... if there's anything I can help with in regards to the ** stuff... let me know.
9:19 PM eloise: pc you better watch what you post because you will be sued
me: I don't think so.
eloise: so you need to tell me what it is
me: You'll see.
9:21 PM eloise: PC I am serious about this you better watch what you post because attorneys are being called right now
me: That's okay... an attorney told me this.
9:22 PM eloise: then the attorney could be disbarred and you will be servewdf by 5PM tommorow
me: Elm, there's no reason to be like that... you don't even know what I'm going to post.
9:23 PM eloise: pc I am serious Iam not saying this the party involved is me: Well we'll go from there...
9:24 PM eloise: so you will be sued because privledged information can get you slapped with crimnal charges tommorow
9:25 PM me: Again... you don't even know what I'm going to say... no reason to assume.
9:26 PM eloise: PC you need to tell me and I will not post it but I am trying to save your ass
9:27 PM me: hold on...
9:30 PM eloise: pc you will be arreseted and and the attorney who told you will be disbarred
eloise: I'm on the pjhone with renee
me: With all due respect, I can't be arrested, trust me.
9:31 PM eloise: pc she is on the phne with an attorney as we speak
9:32 PM she is not playing and she will have you arrested
me: Elm, she can't... there's no reason to even make that statement.
eloise: you will be arrested I am trying to protect you
9:33 PM then you better post it before the cops get there she is already pissed at you so wy push it
9:34 PM me: Elm, I'm sorry I brought up the conversation.
eloise: don't be sorry just be smart
9:35 PM if you got any information from *** he will get arrested to
me: I think you know better than that.
9:38 PM eloise: pc they know who you are
9:39 PM me: I don't care... I know who 'they' are too.
9:41 PM eloise: PC you really don't understand this this is big and you be busted
]9:42 PM they are coming to get you and I am not lying
me: Elm, we've chatted a lot, and I've always considered you as a friend. These threats of being 'busted' are unfounded... I've already spoken with an attorney, and I'm not breaking the law in the least. Again... you don't even know what's going to be said... why the attitude?
9:43 PM eloise: if you got proivledge infrmation form an attorney that attorney will be disbarred. me: Let's go ahead and just end this conversation.
9:44 PM eloise: pc just tell me and we can end all of this
9:45 PM PC I realy don't give a rats ass what it is and i will not try nd scoop you9:46 PM there are allot of people who are really pissed right now and you will be loocked up
9:47 PM are you there
9:51 PM pc are you there
9:55 PM pc are you there
9:56 PM me: Yes Elm, I'm still here... please don't threaten me with legal recourse, because there isn't any... have Ree's attorney's state what law I've broken.
9:57 PM eloise: renee's attorney will be on the phone in a minute
9:58 PM this can not be released until a judge signs of on the deal
9:59 PM this is serious did you talk t one of oe and harlows attorney
me: Again Elm, you seem to assume what I know... even though I never told you.
10:00 PM eloise: then tell me and we can put an end to this
me: It's posted.
eloise: I promise I wont pst it you can if it is not what I think it is
10:01 PM you fucked up big time..."
Ah, sigh. Well, there is a silver lining to these dark, looming storm clouds! As luck would have it...I am currently still waiting (and waiting...and waiting...) for my "lawyer letter" from Kent Barclay. And since I am still anxiously waiting for that anyways...I won't need to take any additional time out of my busy schedule nervously looking out my window for the Renee Martin Police Force to show up. I can conveniently kill two birds with one stone. Which, is comforting!
Update: From the pre-arrest Crab Catcher Transcripts:
GRANT ROY: I guess if they want to know what's going on, all they gotta do is read the blog, they can see what's going on in our lives.
JOSEPH KEREKES: Yea, yea.
HARLOW CUADRA: Our one neighbor, that's, that's ah, what she was doing I forgot what her posting name is...
Are Harlow and Joe talking about Renee? It sure seems like they are...and this would be at odds with the background story Renee fed us earlier, that she did not join the Harlow crusade until after the arrest.
185 comments:
"...in several amusing instances of poetic justice, it's been the lead outers who got outed.."
very amusing :)
while i think your post is mostly fiction, you just never know who is trying to do what and their reasons behind it.
this saga is current and not over.
i question everyones motives, even yours. this is a murder saga starring whores, pimps and many other questionable characters.
it should be clear to you now why i chose to remain anon and known only as BB on the blogs.
The idea of DeWayne as a pedophile is amusing. I am actually the elder in this relationship. Thanks for the compliment though.
Colonial Run Mobile Home Court, as documented on Cops. Just resurrect all my deleted posts for what I really think. It's crazy and disgusting what this woman has done. It's crazy and digusting what Joe and Harlow did. It'scrazy and disgusting what Bryan Kocis did.
I hate to say it, but I think she learned that e-mail scam from Kentie. He just tried to bait me into e-mailing him the other night.
Renee, I'm trying to stay out of this, but I couldn't resist that one. Please don't get angry at me (shudder)!
WOW!
is all I can say at the moment.
Jim thanks for the compliment.
"The idea of DeWayne as a pedophile is amusing."
No it is not.
I know the titles and have seen the covers of the young twink movies he has downloaded.
More damning is Dewaynes comments on these movies.
Dewayne says:
"I have a real hot Tom "Ropes" McGurk video with porn Star Jason Branch really working over a young & eager pup (Tommy Burns) This Boy is new to the scene but gets really excited and Jason really amps this kid up. The scene at the end after an intense flogging when Tommy has tears in his eyes as Jason tells him How "good & strong" he has been well it will just melt your heart & give you a real stiff one!"
AND:
"Latin American Twinks! Bareback fucking with an intensity you rarely see in porn! I rented this video a month ago and was blown away, had to be I went back to the store and bought it."
The models on the cover of the latin twinks looked like they are 12 years old.
BB Gay Torrents does not allow ANYTHING involving underage models.(the site is UK based as you well know since YOUR a member)
So was Bryan and Robert Wagner.
What I find extremely hypocritical on your part your PRECIOUS Bryan Kocis did in fact film underage boys repeatedly he also pimped out boys to favored clients.
Never, Never
Not once have we ever heard a word of condemnation from you.
Robert Wagner is famously into S&M,is a rapist and an escort (all porn stars are whores and escorts YOU said that)
You condemn me for enjoying S&M with men of LEGAL age in CONSENSUAL BDS&M while Robert Wagner and Bryan engaged in NON CONSENSUL SEX (Rape) using Drugs(GHB) WITH 15 year olds.
Well I have not done any of that.
But it was done to me.
Which might be why I have a little problem with Robert Wagner and didn't much care for Bryan Kocis
We Rape victims tend to want to see Justice
Bryan cheated Justice with his death (which I can never forgive Joe and Harlow for)
Robert Wagner will not!
And BB your Bryan has been dead for over a year and a half this continued Necrophillia is disgusting.
You KNOW Bryan loved no one so why the attraction?
"No it is not."
Yes it is. PFFFFFFT
BB said...
"The idea of DeWayne as a pedophile is amusing."
No it is not.
I know the titles and have seen the covers of the young twink movies he has downloaded
BB, you are like a broken record, so I will be too: I find your demonizing of people for their taste in LEGAL porn to be reprehensible.
By the way, it's interesting that the video you talk about where a "twink gets beaten to within an inch of his life" is part of the "Ropes" line that's been in the news so much lately because of the cop/reality TV star who was outed for having appeared in one. The forums have been buzzing with people, including me, who viewed that video many years ago. So I guess you should condemn me now too.
Your use of the word "pedophile" to describe someone who enjoys watching LEGAL porn featuring young men of LEGAL age is slanderous. If I was DeWayne I would sue you.
BB, Brent looked 12 years old on the cover of "Every Pool Boys Dream" but you don't disown Bryan for filming him or raping him.
Why the double standard BB?
Why would it be ok for Bryan to rape underage boys?
Why was it ok for Robert Wagner to perform in bareback porn and get fucked without a condom?
Why is it ok for Robert Wagner to be involved in S&M?
You accuse all of these people of things but you don't look at the big picture BB.
Everything that you just accused Dewayne of Robert Wagner and Bryan were guilty of.
So my question to you is why is it ok for them but not ok for others?
Also you have no proof that Dewayne or Rob are pedophiles yet you accused them both of being as such.
This is what I mean when I say to you that you have no proof of any of the allegations that you sling about.
Put up or shut up!
Personally,
I think Renee Martin is guilty of being a little "out there" -
and that is it.
"Out there" for initially getting involved with Joe and Harlow.
"Out there" for staying involved with Joe and Harlow.
A bit "out there" for coming out on these blogs to the extent that she did.
Guilty of talking [and talking]-
but that is it.
No witness intimidation-
No intentional witness tampering-
No conspiracies against Brent Corrigan-
No "I hate the gays"
That is my take on the Renee situation.
jim,
Regarding Renee "phishing for email address to out you"
IMO, I do not think that is what it was.
I think Renee likes to have people "on her side"
she appears to be a "people pleaser" but I don't think there was malice in there.
I say that because I just remembered something that happened near the start of this.
I was writing to Renee a few times, she never abused email info., only responded after I wrote and most telling [to me]
I told her something very personal, she never repeated it-
she could have easily done that had she been inclined-
& someone [or two] would have found it very interesting.
"I told her something very personal, she never repeated it-
she could have easily done that had she been inclined-..."
Yeah...had she been inclined.
Had you done something to incur her wrath (ie, expose her for what she is) I'm sure it would have been different.
VJ no doubt the witness intimidation was real and done with Malice aforethought. A written complaint was lodged as well.
S & G had their prev hotel security compromised in December.
Renee likes to play the part of a former accessory of Joe and Harlows who has seen the light or woke up and smelled the coffee.
I think she is a fifth columnist still working from the Joe & Harlow playbook.
We must not forget Joe and Harlow defense team AND The Kocis Kabal DO NOT want Sean and Grant to testify at trial.
Michael Kocis has repeatedly demanded that they be removed as Witness's and arrested,tried and convicted.
He has put political pressure on the DA's office and has a sympathetic mole in the DA's office.
Thankfully Melnick is APOLITICAL to his core and in the absence of ANY evidence of S & G complicity he has resisted their demands.
Indeed the recent statement (B)from the DA was in part an answer to the strident calls from Kocis and his Kabal and the witness intimidation that was being brought to bear against S&G.
Still...
Thanks to Bryans illegal buisness Michael Kocis is a Very Wealthy man.
In a county where paralegals in the DA's office start at 19K a year.
And starting ADAs's 27K...
Don't take much cash to throw your weight around!
Bryan played this game well
Rape
Video tape of said rape
15 yo Boy
2001
One Get out Jail card issued by Luzerne County Judge Michael Conahan.
Does not have to register as a Sex Offender.
Cost
239,000 (amount of Bryans personal bankruptcy)
Within 24 months Bryan was a Millionaire.
Wealth BUYS Justice in America...
DeWayne, I wonder if you could clarify one thing about the Kocis matter. You said:
Cost
239,000 (amount of Bryans personal bankruptcy)
Within 24 months Bryan was a Millionaire.
Wealth BUYS Justice in America...
Bryan declared bankruptcy at the time of his 2001 conviction? If so, how does that fit the "wealth buys justice" statement?
Now if he was a millionaire two years later, I can see you saying that when he later got the conviction reduced to a lesser charge, but it seems he was hardly a wealthy man in 2001. when he arguably got a slap on the wrist. Am I misreading what you said?
"Indeed the recent statement (B)from the DA was in part an answer to the strident calls from Kocis and his Kabal and the witness intimidation that was being brought to bear against S&G."
Interesting. Yes, that was my sense of it, when I first read (B).
the difference between me and you lot = i do not attack the dead, i do not piss on the dead. it is not for me to judge the dead.
none of you can provide backup to your claims i support RW and BK.
my thoughts on them both have and remain private.
i have had no dealings with them.
as for sean and his cobrakiller, i've had many online dealings with them. i see right through them both.
Dewayne says:
"We Rape victims tend to want to see Justice"
is that why your into watching very young twinks getting a beating to within inches of their lives and RAPED?
"This Boy is new to the scene but gets really excited and Jason really amps this kid up. The scene at the end after an intense flogging when Tommy has tears in his eyes as Jason tells him How "good & strong" he has been well it will just melt your heart & give you a real stiff one!"
face it Dewayne, when it comes to porn, all you complain about is really what your into. proven in your own words.
people like you disgust me. your porn habits are well known. your sick.
your far worse than BK could have ever been. proven in your own words.
elm, this put up or shut up comment from you is lame at best.
all the lies and attacks that came from you, well they back fired, as happened to the main players in this sage. deal with it.
had i not been attacked, threatened and the like in the first place, i'd not be here :)
yep thats right, i am here due to the cobrakillers anger and rage he directed towards me when he (and dewayne) was 110% sure i was BK.
as for you, every claim you made has been proven to be a lie. funny watching you backtrack now LOL.
you made a threat to out me and post my address and where i work online. funny how that stunt back fired eh :)
Will Bryan never went to trial it was noted at the time that he had to have been paying more than Legal fee's in order to declare bankruptcy for 239,000.
The suspicion is he had to pay (on credit cards?) for the silence of the boys family or made a campaign contribution to Judge Conahan.
Bryan was not Wealthy in 2001 but by Luzerne County standards he was comfortable and he owned his home and a lakefront property.
FYI Bryan launched Cobra Video and released Ethans College buddies in Dec 2001 during the time he was under legal threat of trial AND when he needed money the most.
Ethans College Buddies was a smash hit for a debut DVD estimates are Bryan made 170,000 to 400,000 (depending on sales reports)
While Bryan filed Bankruptcy in early 2002 it was discharged in record time as the profits from Cobra Video began to flow into his bank accounts.
jim and dewayne,
I will agree to disagree with you gentlemen on this situation.
There is no doubt that Renee swayed a bit in her convictions,
going the way the wind was blowing at times, so much so that even up til and at the hearing she was talking to Joe and Harlow on the phone. Which makes me believe that they do not even know that she dislikes them "intensely" as she stated.
But what I saw the other night was a woman get humiliated on the blogs here and that was not a pretty site and I am not convinced by a long shot that it was warranted.
Again my perceptions.
BB you are here for one purpose only...
To Defend the Indefensible
Defense of Bryan Kocis
Defense of Robert Wagner
Defense of Pedophilia
Defense of all That is Evil and Unholy in Gay Porn
The abuse and rape of underage boys
Your continued defense of BK, RW paints you as one of the Kabal
If you had no interest in such reprehensible behavior you would not continue to incessantly defend and protect two of the most perverted and disgusting practitioners in the history of Gay Porn!
BB Your the one who keeps company with Evil,Perverted Rapists and Pedophiles.
Says Much about you.
Of course I piss on Bryans Grave someone has to do it.
And I plan to immortalize Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagner after the trial.
I do have to thank you BB, much of my inspiration for continuing to expose and destroy the public image of Cobra Video,Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagner comes from your strident shrill defense of them.
You inspire me and remind me that there are men who truly believe Bryan and Robert actions are to be applauded and given praise.
You must honestly believe in such Evil and abuse since you seem to be the only man left standing with the stench emanating from Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagner.
Congratulations I will dedicate my new blog to you...
BB said...
none of you can provide backup to your claims i support... BK.
____
people like you disgust me. your porn habits are well known. your sick.
your far worse than BK could have ever been. proven in your own words.
There's your backup, BB.
Well well BB, it would appear that if you had contact with the "Cobra killer " than you had contact with Bryan and Robert Wagner on juicygoo.
Also you seem to think that we have short memories but you posted that Robert was not going to be at the recent hearing.
Now why would you know that?
As far as posting my info on the blogs it is quite obvious that I don't give a fuck about it.
It has not shut me up as intended it has actually liberated me . Thanks bitches.
As far as outing you BB, you don't matter to me. You never really have. The people who matter in this case know who you are. Yes dear the police know and the FED's know.
To tell you the truth I kind of feel sorry for you. You are so misguided and lost since Bryan died.
Maybe you will soon have someone new to tell you what to do, heres hoping for a better future.
Good lord, Dewayne you have now stepped over the line and are now truly ghetto. So I now baptise you "Da-one-yeh" spelled DeWayne the "N" is silent. Ghetto prince of the blogs for always going there.
Kisses Dear your friend always, Flaym Thrower
typical of you Dewayne, you ignored the FACTS about YOU in my previous comment.
the truth hurts eh.
how DARE YOU insult RAPE VICTIMS.
you WHINE about you being RAPED.
you WHINE about OTHERS being RAPED.
then your HEART MELTS watching a "young & eager pup" in TEARS while being RAPED. you describe it as "...well it will just melt your heart & give you a real stiff one!"
that is PERVERTED for someone who CLAIMS to be a RAPE VICTIM.
cedric, you'd not know the truth if it hit you in the face.
example: you CLAIM i said RW was not going to be at the recent hearing. i never made such a claim.
however, i DID report on july 9th that RW was NOT in LC, and that he was not required to go. my source is NO concern of yours - other than it is a trusted one - something you'd know nothing about. so um yes, that was posted last day of hearing.
its very obvious you have issues with TRUTH as so many bloggers have pointed out.
BB, DeWayne is busy entertaining Kent Barclay and Marcus Hollstrom at San Diego Pride today, so I'll respond to your post:
Have you ever watched a porn movie? They involve a thing we call ACTING. And I can assure you, NOBODY GETS RAPED. Rape fantasies do play a part in some videos, but most intelligent people are able to distinguish between fantasy and reality.
DeWayne's experience with rape was REAL, and it demeans you and especially all REAL victims of rape for you to draw a conclusion that if someone gets turned on by a video featuring S&M/rape fantasy, that they are "whining" or being less than truthful when recalling their own experience.
Why don't you ever refer to BK raping young men as "perverted"? In fact, why don't you ever refer to it at all?
dewayne said,
"A written complaint was made"
That does not make the allegation true.
If it did bb would have you behind bars for life! :)
Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:
1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.*
2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.
3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.
So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).
BB here is your statement as to Roberts whereabouts in your own words.
BB said...
I can confirm RW is not in LC, he was not asked to go. He has nothing to add to these proceedings.
RW is far removed from being central to anything in this murder saga.
Sean and his CobraKiller however remain central to everything in this murder saga.
Those that do not like this, take your complaints to the DA.
Fact is fact people. Deal with it.
July 9, 2008 7:32 AM
I guess the truth just hit me in the face. As far as being truthful BB you have a large issue with that as well.
I was lied to by many and I have come to grips with that. You have been lied to as well but you continue to tell lies.
In answer to BB's defense of Kocis, the following statement from Michael Gross's "The Case of the Cobra Killer" OUT (Oct. 2007): 85 is the best response:
"[Bryan Kocis] made a few unsuccessful business investments before incorporating Cobra Video in 2001. That same year, a few months before declaring bankruptcy to settle [his] debts of [$239,000], he was arrested on several criminal counts, including 6 felony charges, for twice having sex with a 15-year-old boy. The first time [Kocis] had sex with [this] youth, he also videotaped it, according to police. . . . [Bryan Kocis] was found guilty of the lesser offense of corrupting a minor. [He] served one year of probaton, but the damage to his local reputation was done."
One, the Kocis bankruptcy cause is unexplained, excepting that a sudden debt load caused him to file for relief.
Two, the police nabbed Kocis on 6 felony charges stemming from his liasion with the 15 year old boy. A videotaped encounter of coitus with the youth was made by Kocis of the first encounter, therefore, this event is not a fiction--Proof of statutory rape which is bargained down to a year's probation.
Gross' use of "Cobra Killer" in his article's title is ironic and clearly from the context of the article does not refer to Grant Roy but does refer to Bryan Kocis, the self-described King Cobra, killed not by Sean's boyfriend and business partner, but murdered by Kocis' self-anointed and financially desperate business rivals for Sean's performance, Cuadra and Kerekes.
elmysterio said,
I guess the truth just hit me in the face. As far as being truthful BB you have a large issue with that as well.
Thank you for that statement, Elm.
So far as I have been able to observe, BB is not truthful. He has an agenda, which is to defenc Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagner and to attack Sean Lockhart and Grant Roy. His messages are short on fact and logic and long on invective and name-calling.
He's posted on his own blog, without attribution as if it were his own discovery, The Sword story on Caleb Carter's accusation against Sean Lockhart without noting, as has been done here, that Carter chose to delay his accusation for two months so that it would coincide with the release (and publicity for) Another Gay Sequel.
bb has absolutely no credibility with me.
BB, if somebody had a mean streak or a score to settle with you, they could drop a dime to The Sword about your copyright violation, which I was kind enough to point out to you the other day. Why haven't you taken care of that?
VJ been a little busy not ignoring you. ;)
As for Renee Martins Witness intimidation and posting of witness hotel accommodations, it is important to make a written complaint upon each instance.
AND PSP and the DA was notified and given links to her comments.
It is up to the DA to determine if it was real or not.
The complaint must still be made.
VJ at this moment we are all maintaining a convenient fiction, that everyone is on the same side.
In the interest of Justice.
We are not of course...
I assure you at the conclusion of trial everything that has happened in the last year and a half will be published in excruciating detail.
We will then see ALL the actors in this drama for who they are.
VJ said
"But what I saw the other night was a woman get humiliated on the blogs here and that was not a pretty site and I am not convinced by a long shot that it was warranted."
VJ it WAS warranted believe me.
If it was not I would never have done it.
And at the conclusion of trial if an apology is warranted I would freely offer one.
It won't happen.
Renee Martin should have severed all contact with Joe and Harlow on May 15th 2007.
Her problems stem from the fact she continued contact and subverted jailhouse security arranging those phone calls.
Never mind the DA has used them to their advantage
She was and still is "Hostile and Tampering"
Her very recent actions in PA were revealing of her Hostility and willingness to "Obstruct" this case.
She has an Agenda
To see herself exonerated from "obstruction of Justice and being an "Accessory after the fact"
And if she has to demonize and attempt to discredit 2 state witness's she will do it.
The fact she continued to do that AFTER the DA issued his public statement on Sean & Grant & RW made her intentions crystal clear to me.
DeWayne, I always preface these questions by saying I'm trying to stay neutral, or at least agnostic, when it comes to Renee. So if this question sounds like I'm defending her, it isn't meant that way:
If her agenda is to get herself off the hook for being an accessory and obstructing justice, how does it help her to continually pronounce H & J guilty as charged? Wouldn't she be better served by saying "innocent until proven guilty" (as we all probably should, BTW)?
"If her agenda is to get herself off the hook for being an accessory and obstructing justice, how does it help her to continually pronounce H & J guilty as charged?"
My observation on that question: It helps slant your perception of her, and gives her anti-prosecution propaganda more credibility.
If Preacher George were to say "Melnick lied in that last filing" no one would give him the time of day. Everyone knows what Preacher George's agenda is.
Now, when Renee says it, everyone goes "OMG, she's saying Melnick LIED! AND she's anti-Harlow!!! Therefore, what she says MUST be true!"
And that's the game she's been playing.
Good observation Jim and actually shows Renee Martin is more subtle than we give her credit for OR
she has had careful coaching from a lawyer.
In fact I say she is lying when she says she "flew off to PA" without consulting a lawyer first.
NO ONE is that STUPID!
Mrs.Martin had to have known she could be arrested upon arrival in Luzerne County.
Which is essentially what happened in the DA's office. Sure it was Velvet Glove treatment but arrest nonetheless with a real Material Witness $50K bail imposed.
And there were more mistakes and inconsistancies Renee made along the way, which verified my initial opinion about her:
1. The Incredible Disappearing Gag Order
If you all recall, when Renee first burst forward, she was saying she was at that moment finally "free" to talk; that first trip to Wilkes-Barre being some watershed event that finally allowed her to talk about the case online, she said.
And then initially, she talked, and answered SOME questions. What she said back then was interesting, but the thing you realize in hindsight is, every "revelation" she made back then was something on those phone transcripts. In other words, all the true information she told us back then was stuff she knew we were all going to hear anyways, when the transcripts finally became public.
When we tried to ask her questions about matters not on those tapes (ie, about Harlow's private investigator, Cheryl "Sassy" Conrad), she would clam up, usually saying she was "not free to answer at this time."
But NOW she says she is under NO speech restriction whatsoever...she always has been FREE to say what she wants, how she wants to, and when she wants to say it.
2. The Incredible Disappearing (and Reappearing!) Lawyer
Renee managed to have an attorney standing right beside her bedside table when threatening PC via IMs last year:
"9:57 PM eloise: renee's attorney will be on the phone in a minute"
...and she also says she consulted with her lawyer regarding the legality of the three-way phone calls she made back then too.
But now, when she really needs a lawyer, being a material witness in a murder trial (under an appearance bond and monitoring arrangement, no less) she says 'Oh, I don't need no lawyer! Not like that guilty Brent and Grant! Nosirree bob, lawyers are for people who are guilty, not me!'
So, her lawyer disappeared when she wanted to engage in some gratuitous Brent-bashing. Hmmm. Funny thing is, if you look at the comments in the previous threads, her claimed lack of legal representation did not make Brent and Grant look more guilty. It made Renee Martin look like a fool.
Renee Martin is no fool; I am certain she has had her own lawyer representing her through this the whole time. In fact, he magically reappeared just the other day, when she was making her batshit crazy threats against DeWayne: "And as for all of your false accusations , you better have proof buddy cause the paper work is headed your way, do you know what a lawyer is?"
3. The Blogs as Evidence Nonsense.
OK, this was just positively nutty. Her claim that Melnick told her that words posted on blogs could not be used as evidence in a court of law was so demonstrably false that it generated a tidal wave of contrary opinion backed up by supporting evidence. It's incidents like these that should tip everyone off that much of what she says, she is just making up as she goes along.
Jim--
Glad the information got posted regarding Material Witnesses on this blog as well as the information regading electronic/digital transmissions per the Federal Rules of Evidence. All of that puts Martin's statements into perspective and lets the discerning reader sort through her spin.
dewayne,
I hope you had a fun weekend!
Thank you for answering.
NOTHING about this case is NORMAL in any way!
This [case?&^%?] has gone so far beyond bizarre-.
I have to get this out of my system, bear with me :)
Do you guys [jim, dewayne] believe James Martin was/is right there in all of this??
That would be saying, they would intentionally put their family in jeopardy, [baby and all] over 2 boneheads Harlow and Joe??
That one is tough for me to wrap my head around.
"Do you guys [jim, dewayne] believe James Martin was/is right there in all of this??"
Probably not. People who dealt with the Martins early on noted the rift between husband and wife over this issue.
Gee, I wonder who "Anonymous" is who just left the tenth comment in The Sword's Caleb Carter story. Can't imagine. . .
(Whoever it is, they'd better STAY anonymous, otherwise The Sword might get wind of their CONTINUED COPYRIGHT VIOLATION.)
Poor aanonymus is not even man enough to post under his moniker anymore. He must be really terrified of being threatened again.
VJ writes, "NOTHING about this case is NORMAL in any way!
This [case?&^%?] has gone so far beyond bizarre-."
Yeah, gives the impression someone's personal and financial fortunes are tied up in maintaining the pretense that Bryan Kocis was not an ephebophobic predator who filmed and shared his proclivity with others of like minds.
Rob who might that be? who does not want the truth to come out and put a resulution to all of this?
rob & elm,
Good points, both-
I know all of us have lived [and continue to live] interesting lives.
I mean, I HAVE lived a few of them.
I know others have too-
Has anyone ever seen anything like this, I am not even talking about the murder, that is like- old news now, I am talking about all the "after stuff"?
I have seen murder situations, not many [thankfully]
all kinds of greed, corruption- and what goes with it-
I could go on and on, - but I have never seen anything like this, and I really thought my days of being surprised [by life] were over.
I agree VJ
There will be more than one book or screenplay to come out of this story.
The number of people already sniffing around the backend is amazing to me and yes I have never witnessed anything like it.
Even the Andrew Cunanen Crime spree pales and would we have heard of him if he had not killed Versace?
v.j. said, "Has anyone ever seen anything like this, I am not even talking about the murder, that is like- old news now,..."
v.j. Our young genius friend, Kyros Christian commenting about DeWayne and I, said that we have made a second life of observing Brent Corrigan. Your suggestion is that just since the murder, there is a fascinating story filled with intrigue, manipulation, deceit and hidden motives, is so to the point.
I sometimes wonder about the time I spend keeping up with these events. Is this normal or healthy? I used to watch 'House' and 'Survivor.' Those were my TV shows. I don't even know if 'Survivor' is still an on going project. I watch no TV now. I will catch 'House' when it comes out on DVD each season.
V. j., there was something in the eye of young Master Corrigan when I saw him on the cover of EPD. It got my attention and still has it. Plots within plots and stories within stories to the point that at this time, D is legally restricted and I have similar moral restraints. The visible events (many thanks P.C.) are just that, the visible parts. There is a whole other world behind that.
We were commenting years ago about Brent’s story becoming a mini-series. There was already too much for a single movie. As you observe, the events since the murder are more than enough for a complete movie or book in their own right.
Truth is stranger than fiction and ’The Life of Brent,’ is certainly that.
DeWayne In San Diego said...
"Even the Andrew Cunanen Crime spree pales and would we have heard of him if he had not killed Versace?"
DeWayne, I know you are and have been in the thick of this mess since the beginning, but let's not lose perspective here! The Cunanen story was one of those national events that completely overtook cable news for its duration, well before he killed Versace. I know because I was glued to the TV throughout. The Kocis case, not that this is a competition, is small potatoes by comparison.
But since you brought it up, DeWayne, I've had it in the back of my mind for awhile now to ask you if you knew Cunanen, or at least of him, while he was in SD. This is obviously WAY off topic here, but you did bring it up!
albert,
Thank you-
Your comment was refreshing, and it is good to know others feel the same way, and you know so much more than I do about this.
will,
I have a tiny bit of info. on Andrew Cunanan. I served him a drink at a party a few nights before he murdered Versace. Maureen Orth interviewed me about it and mentioned it and my name [which I could care less about-:)] but she was very sweet and I liked her alot. I wish it was Dominik Dunne though- :) anyway-
At that time I was in a relationship [married 7 years] to my ex who was Versaces number one model. He was all over the place with Bruce Weber and Versace [kind of was too much!]
Versace's last book which came out right after his murder titled "Rock and Royalty" by Versace and Bruce Weber featured my other half on the cover nude with a Royal Crown on his head and a Versace towel on.
Yep, stardom for my honey - kinda deteriorated the relationship.
Back to your point that case was all circus media, from all over the world - all congregated on Miami Beach at one time- very bizarre- but very different from this and I think this case is far stranger!!
Well V.J., fascinating to say the least. My memory is that he was mostly hiding out in a sleazy hotel while in Miami, not going to parties! But it's been a while.
My take is that this case, to use a word BB just used on PC's thread, is sleazier, but I wouldn't say it's stranger. Especially since nobody really knows to this day what set Cunanen off on his murder spree.
Jim, can we start a new blog on Cunanen: The Aftermath, or something?
You know Will, it's funny...when Brent first reported that Harlow and Joe were "on the run" back in March 2007 (right?) I actually blogged that they were probably hiding out in some houseboat in Miami somewhere.
Little did I know how close I was!
Now that the lion's share of the Crab Catcher Talks are presented on PC's blog, I would like to know just exactly what dire consequences for Sean and Grant were being alluded to?
I frankly don't see any. I do see lots of premeditation on Harlow and Joe's parts, stemming from the infamous Le Cirque dinner, which Joe paid for, and Grant Roy to his credit told Harlow and Joe that nothing whatsoever should be done to Bryan Kocis.
Know it would appear that the Kocis family have a lot of monetary reasons to throw suspicion onto Grant and Sean.
Here we have a couple of decent guys--Sean and Grant--undergoing a concerted effort by others to be knocked off the stage through less than 3rd rate innuendo.
Once again what dire consequences were to befall Sean and Grant in Pennsylvania? Where's the evidence they did anything untoward? Frankly, there isn't any.
You know, I keep thinking after every transcript gets released showing Harlow and Joe acted alone, aha! it's over. Even the most rabid Brent haters will have to admit defeat now.
But no! Somehow, the wishful thinkers among them always find a way; and using the most tortured sophistry ALWAYS say, "oh, that does not mean what you think, it means this..." and the cycle continues unabated.
This will be no exception, I'm sure. The only suspense here will be the degree of creativity for their sophistry. The more creative such arguments are, the greater their comedic value, IMO.
So, needless to say I can't wait to see how they are gonna spin this...
Jim--
I hear the industrial strength Maytag Washers starting up and the Mighty Memory Spin Mobile is preparing for another super cycle.
One who continues to cast aspersions on Grant Roy and Sean Lockhart is bb. I have posted on the preceding blog a message analyzing how bb has dealt with Caleb Carter's accusations against Sean Lockhart. This illustrates by I assign zero credibility to bb.
Prof--
I hope you have a good helmet and a decent Kevlar(R of DuPont) shield. That observation is bound to draw incoming invective against you. Yet, very appropriately observed. Welcome to the club.
VJ--
Actually Cunanan did get that treatment on A&E "Investigative Reports" with Bill Kurtis. There was also a more recent A&E Cunanan report in a series on Serial Killers.
You have a good sense for contemporary crime reports.
jim, I double posted by mistake, if the second one went through please let it in. Thank you.
Thank you rob!
I think I deleted it, 'cause it was a duplicte.
thanks for looking jim.
anyway will, Andrew Cunanan enjoyed Dewars on the rocks with a glass of water on the side! :)
A bit of Andrew Cunanan/Versace trivia that you may find interesting.
The Miami Beach Police Dept was supposed to be on the lookout for a gay serial killer- there was a trail and it led to Miami Beach- they were very lax, did not do much at all to alert gay people.
It was "interactive club communication" that got the little info. out there about the "gay serial killer".
Andrew Cunanan may have been staying in a flea baq hotel room but he was out and about at night in the Miami Beach gay Nighlife scene at least for several nights prior to the murder.
The night that I encountered him I was standing out in front of a friend of mines niteclub, I was bartending a party, it was early and we were hanging out.
Andrew Cunanan left Subway [next door] and started his way into the club [now this is hard to believe but Honest TO God truth and all documented in Maureen Orths book.
The manager of the club Frank said [to me and the bouncer] "that was a serial killer that just walked in."
I shit you not!
I did not even listen to him but went upstairs to work and it was early. Andrew Cunanan came up to the bar ordered his drink- that was it-
BUT Frank saw him, thought for sure it WAS HIM, did NOT do anything about it- it sounded so crazy even to himself- and then - I believe the next day or the day after was the murder and Frank was a mess. Maureen Orth came to talk to us.
Strange but true.
The Miami Beach Police took a brutal beating on this and after it was all over [for a little while anyway]- there was so much protection for gay people on Miami Beach, you could almost get a police escort into the clubs!
V.J. - OMG
Hey all did not mean to just drop Cunanan and run ;)
My BF P**** knew Andrew he graduated from The Bishops School in LaJolla where P**** sister was a year behind him. BF was one year older than Andrew, they ran into each other socially over the years at Clubs around town.
P**** and I became a couple in 96 and since I am not a clubber and he was tired of the scene he lost contact.
When Cunanen surfaced in the press we all kind of freaked.
We all thought he would return to San Diego because of family but instead he headed east.
What happened I recall we both talked to some people who knew him they were just as clueless.
He just snapped they said.
The rumors he was HIV+ started in SD and were debunked when the Autopsy said NEG. He told a friend in San Diego he was sure he would test pos just before he flew to Minnapolis.
He had deteriorated rapidly in just under 2 years.
Did I remember him? sure just the way you remember anyone in a bar or club. He was always there every weekend.
Thats what made Andrew so scary we ALL KNEW him.
dewayne,
That IS interesting!
I cannot remember if it was THE night before or 2 nights before the murder that I saw him but because of the time he came in around 10 p.m.- he was one of the first ones in- I remembered alot about him.
He was very "normal" looking, attractive [in a normal way]- it is South Beach so it is usually muscles & such that gets attention-
Cunanan did not have that. He had a nice face, looked like he was "down", his shirt was unbuttoned [too much] he obviously did not care to go to the gym. I remember that because I thought, you do not have your shirt unbuttoned really low if you are not working out [or even if you are- but]
I know that sounds weird but I remember thinking it at the time.
OMT,
Correction on a comment I made yesterday,
The book "Rock and Royalty" was released just prior to Versaces death.
I had said yesterday it was after.
My memory is not the best!
It was the LAST book released with Versaces input before his death.
I just want to be precise. :)
I was thinking how I can draw some parallels to Joe and Harlow.
A summary at the end of Death at Every Stop by Wesley Clarkson,
quotes various experts on why Andrew snapped. I think they capture some insights read them first then I'll sum up with what I think was the ultimate cause of Andrews spree and J & H's murder of Bryan Kocis.
* Dr. Helen Morrison, a leading forensic psychiatrist:
"We are faced with a brand new type of murderer and that is one reason why there are so many unanswered questions. There is no comparison between Cunanan and any other model we have. He is not a serial killer, not a spree killer, and certainly not a mass killer...If someone doesn't fit, then maybe we should start getting rid of the boxes."
* Richard Ressler, FBI agent and serial killer expert:
"He had relationships with several young men and one left him. He was having financial problems. All of these dynamics were pulling on this guy. Being self-centered and narcissistic, these had a special stress. And I suspect this guy probably had contracted AIDS."
* Paul Salkin, psychiatrist:
"He was a complete chameleon...a multiple personality. He certainly had multiple appearances."
* VernonGeberth, author of Practical Homicide Investigation, the textbook for homicide detectives:
"If you take a look at the dynamics of the killing of (Versace), he was basically killing the person that he could never be...A lot of folks who do this feel a sense of superiority over the police. The police were basically impotent to him. By doing this, he not only got to validate his own superiority, he got to make a statement."
Do you see a pattern here?
Extreme Narcissism on the part of Andrew Cunanen, Joe and Harlow
The world centered on them, they were prolific spenders,desperate to maintain a fiction they were wealthy,(all 3 came from poor family backgrounds) Escorts who seemed to have a very warped view of human relationships.
In the end all three share this...
They had a very strong belief in their self-importance and entitlement without the supporting structure.
Very common among Escorts and Prostitutes who mix and live well with wealthy clients and in the end fail to realize they are simply "In Service" just like the maid and gardener.
A very Corrosive lifestyle...
mixed that with Narcissism out of control...
Jim, we have completely hijacked your thread with all this Cunanen talk! I'm telling you we need a new blog. Interestingly, the whole Cunanen story predated blogs -- I just checked and couldn't find any that are devoted to him, when there are seemingly blogs about everything else under the sun. Maybe I'll start one!
rob (aka slob) said,
I hope you have a good helmet and a decent Kevlar(R of DuPont) shield. That observation is bound to draw incoming invective against you. Yet, very appropriately observed. Welcome to the club.
As the old school yard ditty goes, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me."
Since, as I have observed previously, the only armanent in bb's arsenal is name-calling, I'm fully prepared to be subjected to it.
In fact, I've made the same point, that the only weapon in his arsenal is name-calling, before and bb has not responded. The reason, I suspect, is that he realizes that if he responds to me by name-calling he will only prove my point.
dewayne,
Very good!
I was thinking about it.
I personally think it was that he [Cunanen] thought he was not getting what he [thought he] deserved out of life.
Maybe what he once DID get [the attention, the gifts, lifestyle- etc.] he certainly wanted it.
He was getting older, not the center of attention anymore- for some people that sends them over the edge in and of itself.
Have to throw in a personal experience again.
When I was modelling, of the 8 years that I was in that business, 3 of them I got to a point of being one of the top 10 in the world [junior models] the 18 to 26 market- even though I was older than that- anyway.
One guy who I worked all the time with "Brad" he was a superstar - his boyfriend was a big designer in Paris and he had it all. Well we all got older and Brad stopped getting work, from superstar to not working from 20's and gorgeous to 30's and very handsome but not to him - he was no longer "Muglers" boyfriend and did not get a ton of attention anymore. I had retired from modelling several years earlier- I was too old. I was fine with it- actually it was very stressful at the end and I was relieved to have quit and taken a job. Brad would visit Miami and he could not believe I was working a "normal" job. He said he could never do that. A couple/few years later I was devastated to find out that he sliced his wrists in his NY apt and killed himself. I believe he could not live with not being beautiful anymore- it sounds shallow, but to me it is sad. I wish that he and others realized it IS [cliche I know] what is going on inside that is important.
I think this goes with what you said in one of your quotes- narcissism and I believe it runs through both cases.
Also I am not saying it is easy getting older, it is not but we all do.
V.J. - What you dexcribe is an all too common and sad fact of life among gay men, but if that was at the root of Cunanen's pathology the world would be overrun with gay serial killers! This is why I think his case is so mysterious, I don't think it can really be explained.
As for H & J, I don't think it was so much narcissism as it was greed combined with stupidity, a dangerous combination indeed.
will G said, "it was greed combined with stupidity...." I see the same thing Will.
V.J you have a quality that comes thru in your writing that impressed me early on. You may have been a model and someone who had an image to project but I feel you were and remain an observer you were able to see the self-destructive aspects of being a pro-model.
And you seem to have found balance in your life ;)
dewayne,
Thank you! :)
You know, you are right.
I never got "into" the false part of it-
I was looking at it from the outside, even when I was in it.
O.K.
The question before I started talking about myself was
"has anyone ever seen anything in their lives that comes even close to being as bizarre as this case?"
Albert and dewayne said no and will said he thought Andrew Cunanan was-
I kind of validated my "having been around" and I STILL say this is the strangest murder case or ANY case that I have ever seen.
V.J., the reason the murder case is so bizarre is that in the years leading up to it, all of the participants bar none led lives much stranger than most people could imagine. Each of the threads in the story is in itself curiously twisted.
VJ this is by far the most unbelievable murder case that I have ever come across.
It really just defies words.
OK V.J., what do you think is so strange about it? Personally, I think the strangest thing about it is the Kocisphere that sprung up around it (which I LOVE, Jim!), but I just don't see it as far as the murder goes. A couple of grifters, a harebrained scheme, a dead pornographer. What am I missing? The backstory with Sean and Grant and the beach sting are all fascinating elements, but strange? Not to me.
:)
I do believe Geoff Harvard hit the nail on the head!
v.j. said,
"has anyone ever seen anything in their lives that comes even close to being as bizarre as this case?"
As my profile says, I got involved in this case in September 2005 when, while Googling on something I no longer remember, I came across an item that the attorney for one "Brent Corrigan" had released a public statement saying that his client was only 17 when he persormed in several gay porn videos for "Cobra Video." At the time I had never heard of either "Brent Corrigan" or "Cobra Video." But I asked myself, "Why in hell would he do that?" And so I started following the case
I found that the apparent answer to my original question was a bit complicated and I'm not going to discuss it here.
But then we had the trademark litigation, the Harlow and Joe involvement, the Kocis murder, and all the subsequent events.
So this has continued to be a most fascinating topic to me.
Jim--
You posed a question about Joe's and Harlow's blogging female fawning fan and neighbor and suggest that personage might be Renee Martin in your cover story main thread.
Yep, that would be the direction the facts point to.
prof,
There is no doubt that you have seen, [studied], lived alot.
Complex case, this one?!
Does anyone have any ideas as to what is going on with Renee and James Martin?
I mean, talk about an "elephant in the room"
We have the elephant not only in the room but watching every move!
LOL! :)
No disrespect Renee! :)
At the beginning of this thread, I was too confused and kind of disgusted at what I thought was unfair behaviour towards Renee.
Now, I think it is kind of humorous, and am wondering WTF!?
Geoff Harvard has an interesting thought about James Martin maybe not being real.
Who the hell knows???
He could be right-
Sorry for questioning that on a previous thread Geoff-
Geoff is right - wacky case!!
So where is Renee??
James Martin is blogging on death row cases??!!
The elpephant in the room is Renee!
Renee's propaganda was only effective as long as no one had an inkling as to her true motivations.
Once that was exposed, there was no purpose to her to come online anymore; that is why we have not from her hence.
I just gave her a shout-out on PC's, asking her to come help out BB, who is getting pummeled. So maybe she'll respond. Motivations and disagreements and all the ugliness aside, I think it's just not the same without her. And I think she is more than capable of defending herself if it can be kept on a SOMEWHAT civil level. Hell, Jim, we all bat it around with BB, who is FAR more extreme, so I say come back Madame!
If she wants more rope, I'd be happy to provide it.
That's the spirit, Jim!
will & jim,
I am now battening down the hatches LOL!!!
In all seriousness jim what you say makes sense. I am not totally sold on Renee being all bad. But I know that is just me. I think it will be interesting what is coming in the next few months.
I wish everybody would just come out and tell what they know. Only if it is the truth, so we can find out what really went on and what is going on now.
That is not asking too much, is it?:))
Jim seems a little quiet he must be up to something,
Revealing,,
;)
jim said...
If she wants more rope, I'd be happy to provide it.
I like your allegorical metphor.
I helped with the scaffold of what a material witness is and the trap-door of questioning her motivation early on.
BB observes, "[W]hile [I] think your post is mostly fiction, you just never know who is trying to do what and their reasons behind it."
A good number of us have been wondering about your attempts at rewriting Bryan Kocis' history and for what purpose that might be.
"Rob said...
BB observes, "[W]hile [I] think your post is mostly fiction, you just never know who is trying to do what and their reasons behind it."
Yes.
A good number of us have been wondering about your attempts at rewriting Robert Wagner's history and for what purpose that might be.
Which history the spun one of your blog where you duck questions of Robert Wagner's culpability in abetting Bryan Kocis' ephebophobia, which led to 6 felony charges, pleaded down to a single charge for which he served probation, or Wagner's ongoing pandering and pimping for Kocis?
"Rob said...
Which history the spun one of your blog where you duck questions of Robert Wagner's culpability in abetting Bryan Kocis' ephebophobia, which led to 6 felony charges, pleaded down to a single charge for which he served probation, or Wagner's ongoing pandering and pimping for Kocis?"
you provide no proof to your claims. we know how your past claims were proven to be lies.
nothing you say can be taken at face value. as RW has not been charged with any crimes, i'll assume he committed none.
as i have often said to you in the past, if you have evidence of any crimes committed, give to those that can do something about it.
simple really.
BB said...
"...as RW has not been charged with any crimes, i'll assume he committed none."
LOL!!!
BB, you're hypocrisy is absolutely astonishing.
Assume all you want.
Let's see Robert Wagner stripped out the Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra headshot from the email sent to Sean--that is fact. Robert Wagner stole college letterhead in order that Kocis fake a document offering film school to Sean, to fraudently allow Sean to travel to and live in Pennsylvania in the Summer of 2004--that is fact. Elm was engaged in the 3-way jailhouse phone scheme, reported by me at this time last year--that is fact. Renee Martin was arrested as a material witness and bail bond imposed by the prosecution, a condition she said would be lifted; that condition has not been lifted by the court--that is fact. On the Son of Sam blog, you illicited the remark regarding the vehicle with the NY auto tags being in Kocis' driveway the night of the murder, therefore, a question about Wagner's whereabouts which does not contradict the DA's finding of no complicity, simply not vouching for the alibi--that is fact. As extensively pointed out by Jim, Renee Martin has made contradictory statements about the defendants and about Sean Lockhart's and Grant Roy's involvement, implying they were involved, despite the fact of the DA's statement clearing both and indicating their cooperation in obtaining evidence against the defendants--a fact acknowledged by Jim in the main post of this thread.
A careful assessment of the balance on your side consistently shows the following: extreme personal attacks against anyone not giving support to the Robert Wagner/Bryan Kocis worldview.
Keep on assuming BB.
The latest Sword story on Brent Corrigan, in which they finally definitely say he no longer a suspect:
http://www.thesword.com/2008/07/brent-corrigan-strips-to-skivvies-and-streaks-acro.html
More of a reiteration I'd say, but yeah.
I see Brent has jumped on the tube sock bandwagon!
Rob said...
"Let's see Robert Wagner stripped out the Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra headshot from the email sent to Sean--that is fact."
Rob, I have been meaning to ask you for ages to please explain this -- what exactly are you referring to and how is it relevant?
Will G--
Go to the Jason Curious post for Jan. 27, 2007 and read the comments. Look especially for the "Brett" post and several Anonymous posts. You will be surprised. If you have not done so, then read the BBT's, especially Harlow's discussion of the Bergeron-Kocis backdoor deal.
If you have other questions, I will gladly respond.
Sean received an email of the proposed model, Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra, the original sent to Kocis contained an attached photo. Sean's email was received with the photo stripped out. The IP of that email with the stripped out tells the tale.
Jim, the tube socks go back as far as the "Soccer Boys" bit with Josh Vaughn.
Jim,
Something else we agree on. The entire Renee story was too good to be true.
Its amazing how she posted how sick and tired she was of all the constant calls from Harlow and Joe, yet she continued to accept them.
All she had to do was deny the call and it would have ended. She could have blocked her number at any time and yet she failed to do so.
How she posted that the plan a, b, c, d, e, f and g made her sick and she wanted to see them pay for the crime they committed. How glad she was that everything was finally out.
But there are a few things Moma R (as Harlow calls her from time to time) failed to mention.
As she was posting all this information, she was still telling Harlow to call her on a daily basis.
Now why if she knew for a fact (as she claimed) that they were guilty of murder would she keep telling him to call her? And then turn around and post how awful they are and all the problems they caused for her.
How she still tells Harlow she is helping raise money for his defense even though she is posting how guilty he is and she wants to see them pay for the crime.
Why would she tell Harlow when she was in PA for the deposition that he had nothing to worry about that she was there for him.
This is what the entire point of the post on my blog Truth, Lies and Renee Martin was all about. I seen the entire thing as another scheme that she was working on from the second she started posting all that information.
However, the blog turned into everything but discussion about the case. Hence the comments were removed. Thank God you saved them….lol… you can have them actually. Apparently I didn’t want them on my blog to begin with.
Now something else to just clear the air, the post you made in reference to me,
You have never been more wrong in your life. Your post proves you know absolutely nothing about me. Keep guessing.
And never call me an x trooper again, rest assured I had more jurisdiction than 15 foot right of center. Ha ha ha.
And last but not least, even though you have removed my link to my blog from your site,
Thank you for that. Finally.
You still manage to refer a lot of traffic to my site. Thanks. You are rated number #40 for the amount of traffic but hey at least I’m getting more traffic.
The Jakester.
Please dont confuse that post as an attempt to get back into this case. I still post nothing regarding this case.
You can kept it all here.
Rob said...
"Let's see Robert Wagner stripped out the Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra headshot from the email sent to Sean--that is fact."
no evidence this happened. more lies from you.
sean says BRYAN sent him an email though.
this like your other claims that were proven as lies - is another lie.
Blogger Rob said...July 31, 2008 12:00 AM
Sean received an email of the proposed model, Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra, the original sent to Kocis contained an attached photo. Sean's email was received with the photo stripped out. The IP of that email with the stripped out tells the tale.
I hate to agree with bb, but what is the evidence that the photo of "Danny Molina" was stripped from the e-mail vorwarded to him?
According to the statement by Attorney John Yates shortly after the murder, his clients (in the civil case with Brian Kocis) knew the identify of the model who was to meet with Kocis on the night of the murder.
One way they would have known this identity is by receiving the photo.
Of course there are other ways. Harlow might have e-mailed Sean about his plan to visit Kocis. Or Sean might haveinferred that Harlow had visited Kocis from the call the next morning that Sean view the WNEP webcast.
Still,I'd like to know whether Sean actually received a picture of "Danny Moulin."
Rob said...
Let's see Robert Wagner stripped out the Danny Moilin/Harlow Cuadra headshot from the email sent to Sean--that is fact.
I'm certainly no friend of bb, but I've seem this assertion made about the stripping of the Danny Moulin headshot from the e-mail sent to Sean but I have never seen the evidence. Where is it?
BB writes, "no evidence this happened. more lies from you."
Hate to break to you, but the email received with a photo complete and whole would have caused Sean to remark that he knew the model.
The email regarding Danny Moilin was sent without the headshot.
So, Prof you said it so well. BB is without credibility. What makes you think he is being truthful now and on this point.
The IP on that email tells the tale.
The Yates' reference is to Cuadra's phone call to Sean the day after the Kocis murder.
Wagner doesn't like being placed on the Kocis property nor does he like it stated that he stripped out the Danny Moilin photo before sending it to Sean.
Try emails the authorities gathered.
Now Rob, you are being completely unreasonable by suggesting people should look at the actual evidence. That is just a blatant insult to the intelligence of your opponents. If they had need for evidence, they would get it and use it. Obviously they do not. Get a clue! :)
Albert would you be suggesting that BB generalizes without proof? ;)
Albert would you be suggesting that BB generalizes without proof?
Yesterday I read about Microsoft's plans to introduce its iPod Killer Zune in Europe at the end of the year 2009. I laughed so hard, I almost fell of my chair.
I laughed equally hard about this one, Rob.
Oh crap...I accidentally approved a post that used "forbidden words."
I'm deleting that post now...I hope everyone understands why.
What? "Microsoft" is a forbidden word on your blog?
rob said,
So, Prof you said it so well. BB is without credibility. What makes you think he is being truthful now and on this point.
Because the unmentionable one has endorsed bb's reputation for telling the truth.
Just kidding!
pc seems speechless tonight. 'Who or what might have caused this,' one may well ask.
Huh? In what way?
I have not really noticed anything out of the ordinary. If anyone has been speechless 'tis been me (to lazy to make a new post now for over a week).
I'll have some interesting observations on the Crab Catcher Transcripts on Monday or so, though, I think.
Prof--
The fact of the email with the stripped out photo exists. The IP's gathered by the PSP prove that and the intendent questions. The two who are relevant are Sean Lockhart who received that model application email and the sender Robert Wagner.
Then I will add one point that really sends RW into orbit. Kocis had an internal CCTV monitoring system in his home. Kocis could, and did, access that system remotely. He caught Sean snooping as Sean put it in his account "The Siren's Tale." Kocis confronted Sean in extreme anger on his return to the house. It was this confrontation that caused Sean to leave Kocis. Was Sean a willing lover of Kocis. My answer is a resounding "No." The relationship, such as it was, was built on power, control, domination, and the constant threat of humiliation of the lesser in the relationship. All of these factors are the victimizer/victim scenario and the Stockholm Effect comes into play. Kocis was a collector and Sean was the latest specimen.
Wagner's function was pimp for Kocis and which Cobra model to trick. Sean was always manuevered out of Bryan's house, Summer of 2004, when Wagner came by. On return, Sean was inevitably given a drink and then liasions for which Sean was in no condition to consent.
Sean's story is consistent from each venue he has chosen to impart it. It is the consistency that impresses me.
Renee--
You coached Kerekes in those 3-way phone calls that most were denying existed, yes or no?
You sure as Hell aren't being told by a detective hanging over your shoulder what to say in those 3-way conversations to how did the Prosecutor term that? "Business associate" of Kerekes and Cuadra. Who benefits from the 3-way phone calls? Harlow Cuadra and Joe Kerekes. What were they doing with those calls? Committing bad acts in furthering a murder by attempting to implicate others, specifically Wagner, Lockhart, and Roy.
One instance, I might buy what you say as a hypothetical of something proposed to Kerekes for consideration. The fact is there is more than one instance of manipulating for just the right alibi. How precious and none too bright! Hell even Chinchilla Jim finds that most troublesome for you indeed.
That problem of your consistency again Penelope. Your status is no problem with the prosecutor and the judge. You trumpeted a change in your status. Strange that the judge has not ordered one.
So Baby Cakes save the grits and molasses for the trial. I have never cared for either.
Rob,
Is there reference to either 1) the handling of the email to Brent about a new Cobra model; or 2) the CCTV system in the now demolished Kocis home in any professionally published source?
And by professionally published source I mean news accounts and/or court filings.
See, I think thats the issue people are having with all this is, no one seems to recall seeing any reference to either of those items in such an established source.
The affidavit mentioned an email to Brent from Bryan, casually mentioning a new unnamed model was due to arrive that day (and significantly, WITHOUT a photo attached). Here's the exact quote:
"[Cobra webmaster] Puente indicated that on 01/24/07, at approx 1423 hrs., EST (Eastern Standard Time), an email was sent by the victim to Sean Lockhart, which stated in part that the victim was expecting a male model to arrive at the victim's residence later that same date."
See that? "...by the victim..."
So, unless you are saying Robert was utilizing Bryan's email account that day, what you are saying does not seem to be right.
Now, that being said...ARE you saying Robert was handling Bryan's personal email that day? Because if you are...then, OK, what you are saying now makes sense.
But, here's the problem...how do you know this? I am about 99.9% I've never seen this in a professionally published account. So, either there is a 0.1% that I missed it somehow, OR you have some source for case info that none of us are privy to.
And if it's the latter...can you tell us what this source is? 'Cause, like I said, I think that is what people are wondering about.
And the same goes for the CCTV system...in fact, this one concerns me more, because after loooong months of Kocis blogging I can tell you the effect of such an story like this will have: ALL the Harlow supports like Preacher George and Renee and the Bitchless Blog and Elm are gonna suddenly pop up and scream "AHA! The murder was VIDEOTAPED, and the eeeeevil Luzerne Cty officials are COVERING IT UP!!! The REAL murderers are on that tape, and poor lil Harlow was FRAAAAAAAMED!"
You couple that with the fact that Luzerne County demolished the house...well, the pro-Harlow conspiracy nutters are gonna have a field day. You can predict, with the certainty of atomic decay, that this is exactly what will happen now, if this starts getting accepted as fact.
So, if this CCTV is fact, AND can be established as such via a professionally published source...well, so be it. Let the truth come out, chips fall where they may.
BUT if this is not an established fact...well, I think it is a bad idea to try to turn such speculation into a pseudo-accepted fact, for precisely the reasons outlined above.
My point being, you need to be real careful about sourcing these kinds of things.
Nice point Jim.
Problem is Robert Wagner HAD ACCESS TO ALL OF BRYAN'S PASSWORDS. So if Bryan's account was used, I am sure you get the picture. That pointer cannot be overlooked.
Until I see otherwise, why PSP might believe Kocis sent the email to Sean, Wagner is prime and that gets to his ongoing animosity for Sean.
"Problem is Robert Wagner HAD ACCESS TO ALL OF BRYAN'S PASSWORDS. So if Bryan's account was used, I am sure you get the picture. That pointer cannot be overlooked.
Until I see otherwise, why PSP might believe Kocis sent the email to Sean, Wagner is prime and that gets to his ongoing animosity for Sean."
Rob, you still haven't properly sourced any of this. One problem many of us are having is that we believe stuff we think we heard over a year ago from tertiary sources who may have been full of shit. It is time now to tighten up the scholarship on this and other issues. (I've been urging this on the unmentionable issue since February.)
Oh, and Sean and his evil Cobrakiller have blood on their hands, and Robert Wagner, jealous of Bryan's continuing relationship with the perfidious little Sean, set Bryan up and witnessed the whole thing from the CCTV upstairs. Just to make this official.
"pc seems speechless tonight. 'Who or what might have caused this,' one may well ask."
Me speechless... you must be kidding. :)
"Problem is Robert Wagner HAD ACCESS TO ALL OF BRYAN'S PASSWORDS. So if Bryan's account was used, I am sure you get the picture. That pointer cannot be overlooked."
Rob,
I hate to beat the same drum, but you've been making all of these accusations for months now... yet you've been unable to offer any proof other than your word.
Surely some third party can back you up?
Where you able to find the two missing pages you said I didn't post in regards to Renee Martin?
Have you been able to find any official documentation to back up anything that you've stated as fact?
Not trying to start an argument, I'm just curious.
rob,
You still have not provided evidence from a reliable source that Harlow's picture was stripped from the e-mail sent to Sean. The IP address from which the e-mail was sent is not such evidence. The authorities could, of course, have obtained the actual message including any attachments, if any, but I have seen nothing in the official record to say one way or the other whether there was a picture of Harlow attached.
I might also mention that in PC's blog you indicated that you would obtain a copy of Grant Roy's complaint about the behavior of the Kocis family at the recent hearing once the Clerk of Court's office was opened the next morning, but as yhet you have not done so.
omg people, dont you get it? rob is clueless.
every claim made by him turned out to be a lie.
funny as hell really coz dewayne and others who speak for sean and spread sean's lies are making matters worse for sean and his cobrakiller.
time will prove me right on that.
odd dewayne made his comment about kocis family attacking sean and his cobrakiller - said comment since deleted - no more comment from dwayne on his false claim, though albert did try back him up.
FACT is, sean lied (again) to dewayne, who reported incident as TRUTH. that is how we know dewayne is seans mouth piece.
"Problem is Robert Wagner HAD ACCESS TO ALL OF BRYAN'S PASSWORDS."
really? prove it. until you do it will be assumed to be yet another one of your lies.
did you report this to the police?
ANYONE:
do we know for a fact the email bryan sent sean did not have a picture of harlow (or anyone else) attached?
strikes me as odd bryan would send email bragging about new model without including an image.
it would explain robs desperate attempts to his claim (as mouth piece for sean & cobrakiller) that RW sent the email without image attached to direct attention away from the FACTS about said email.
FACT is those that terrorized Bryan online are trying to do same with RW.
"BB said...
omg people, dont you get it? rob is clueless.
every claim made by him turned out to be a lie."
I would not call those two things lies. In fact, I was very careful not to.
No, my only point was they were totally unsupported claims.
Other notable examples of similarly unsupported claims circulating out there include:
1) Brent and Grant somehow have blood on their hands; and
2) The hate mail (ie "flyers") they received last year (and again, specifically mentioned in the CCTs) was a lie.
I would put both those claims (and quite a few others) in precisely the same catagory. Not lies per se, but merely reckless claims totally unsupported (and indeed, in many cases directly contradicted) by the known evidence.
Not that anybody needs my two cents here, but I think it might be a good policy from here until end of trial for NOBODY to make claims in the threads without, as Jim says, supporting evidence in the court record or in published reports.
PC--
Yeah as a matter of fact I did back in the thread in which you claimed more than one car could not park in Kocis' driveway on Midland, the front of his house. In fact, you wanted to ignore where Kocis instructed his visitors to park, the West Belmont Road garage.
Fact is, the long distance photo of Sean sitting in the Jetta's cockpit taken by Kocis and on Sean's MySpace page, shows more than one car can pass.
Then over on your blog regarding the Renee Martin post, I pointed out to you at that time that two pages were left off the Bail Bond Affidavit that had been filed by the Prosecutor's office. You posted that material; you explain why 2 pages were left out.
And, don't take this the wrong way, but you have not been neutral regarding this case. You decided to use dubious information for claiming Sean and Grant would be arrested on setting foot in Pennsylvania. Looks like your source was very wrong.
On that subject, you redacted the information clearing Sean and Grant and Wagner. That information in the Prosecutor's Clearing Statement for those who care is some 4 pages in length. I will be the first to admit not being a Wagner fan, but even he is entitled to the full statement that clears him of complicity in the matter of Kocis' murder.
Next, bright boy, you attempted to claim when you first presented Renee Martin as not having been arrested as a material witness. She was. Her status ain't changing. Requires the judge's signature on the statement of the prosecutor. That has not
happened either.
As for the Kocis webcam system, it existed and Kocis used it as a security system. That system could be and was remotely accessed.
bb, you are being tedious on this password subject. We have covered this grond before. Bryan's alias in GT was cleaned up and eventually closed by RW. The writing styles are distinctive. Bryan had expert knowledge of vidieo transfer over the internet that he shared directly with DeWayne. DeWayne as you know writes under the name DeWayne and I am under the name of Alberte. The e is not a mistake. I have the conversation on file.
Robert does not share knowledge about video transfer methods.
"will g said...
Not that anybody needs my two cents here, but I think it might be a good policy from here until end of trial for NOBODY to make claims in the threads without, as Jim says, supporting evidence in the court record or in published reports."
At the very least, avoid saying "we know for a fact this..." when in fact there are no facts to support the assertion.
As for knowing passwords, wellll... I think it's kind of a stretch to assume based on that that person X sent an email rather than person Y.
Best we can say here is, RW mighta sent Brent the email...although that would seem odd to me, as apparantly this email covered other grounds of a personal nature between Bryan and Brent at the time (only mentioning a new model showing up in passing).
And the CCTV system...I have never seen this written of anywhere except by anonymous bloggers in comments sections. First mentioned by Elm, IIRC. It strains my imagination to think how something this potentially important would not have been mentioned in any police reports, news stories or case filings.
And one other new matter:
"On that subject, you redacted the information clearing Sean and Grant and Wagner. That information in the Prosecutor's Clearing Statement for those who care is some 4 pages in length."
...This would be a great time to post those extra 4 pages, don't you think? I'd be more than happy to feature them here, you know.
" BB said...
ANYONE:
do we know for a fact the email bryan sent sean did not have a picture of harlow (or anyone else) attached?"
Yes. The affidavit says Brent got an email. Not an email with Harlow photo attached as RW got...just an email. Period.
It strains credulity to think that the affidavit would have neglected to mention Brent getting a photo as well. Hence, it must not exist.
You see folks, this how you do it: You cite facts, and then use them to arrive at a logical answer to your question.
This methodology is how I was able to solve this mystery online, back in February of 2007.
""On that subject, you redacted the information clearing Sean and Grant and Wagner. That information in the Prosecutor's Clearing Statement for those who care is some 4 pages in length."
...This would be a great time to post those extra 4 pages, don't you think? I'd be more than happy to feature them here, you know."
Yeah, I'd like to see them too, along with all of these other 'extra' pages no one else seems to know about.
PC--
You laid those documents out on your blog and represented them as complete.
Your Bail Bond post starts at page 3.
As for the clearing statement, the actual document is 4 pages exactly.
Got a reason for leaving out information?
Wrong Jim. I have always used my name and so has Alberte. Sean presented this information.
You have your answer. Wagner had access to Kocis' codes and passwords as Kocis' personal assistant. That job title is his descriptor in the Preliminary Hearing Testimony that he gave under oath.
You just answered your own question Jim, Sean received an email without a Harlow/Danny Moilin photo. Logic would dictate that Kocis would not send an email without a headshot. Wagner had plenty of reasons to exclude the photo.
So I guess that's a "no," you are not going to post those 4 pages?
Jim--
The Luzerne County Clerk of Court's Office is a government entity that serves the Luzerne County Court and the public. If you ask, any deputy clerk will tell you what I asked. The 4 page document is no mystery. This is Sunday and that office is not open.
Ask PC why he chose to redact the Prosecutor's 4 page statement.
"Ask PC why he chose to redact the Prosecutor's 4 page statement."
Uh... because it doesn't exist?
"Ask PC why he chose to redact the Prosecutor's 4 page statement."
He answered that back on his blog, by saying what he posted was all he found in the file. And I am fairly certain he's sticking with answer.
Now, am I interpreting this correctly...you had a LC clerk read ALL these 4 pages to you...over the phone? And thats how you know they exist...and why you dont have a copy?
And you are saying, if I called M-F, and asked the LC clerk nicely myself, she'd do the same for me? Read a four page court filing to me...over the phone?
You see Rob, what's going on here? Me and others are trying to believe what you are saying...but you are not making it very easy.
"It strains credulity to think that the affidavit would have neglected to mention Brent getting a photo as well. Hence, it must not exist."
i tend to agree on this point.
as for rob, he is another Elm. actually Elm is a better man, he came clean (as best he could) eventually.
"As for the Kocis webcam system, it existed and Kocis used it as a security system. That system could be and was remotely accessed."
oh alrighty then... if you say so.
you gonna post the video you claim was made of the murder happening?
A variance. You left out pages. Easily checked.
PC--Are you stating then you relied on faulty information for your prediction of arrest for Sean and Grant?
Do explain why Transcript 97 caused tremendous annoyance and resulted in the issuance of the document.
For Jim. No. I asked regarding the length of the document clearing the 3 men. 4 pages was the answer. Now, PC can state whatsoever he likes on his blog. Let's keep in mind that was the location of the prediction of dire consequences for Sean and Grant on their setting foot in Pennsylvania.
I also recall the tap dance regarding Martin's witness status.
Sorry Jim. I am not the one who posted a redaction.
Do please not make a claim I did not state here. I stated the filed document's length. I did not claim to have any clerk read me that document.
However, you can be sure that I asked about the length from other sources.
"Best we can say here is, RW mighta sent Brent the email...although that would seem odd to me, as apparantly this email covered other grounds of a personal nature between Bryan and Brent at the time (only mentioning a new model showing up in passing)."
Jim Wagner was Kocis' personal assistant, among other things, so it looks like his boss asked him to send an email wanting to know if Sean could do business with the "new model." Sean had dinner with that individual. If the photo had been sent with the email, I do believe Sean would have noted (1) he knew the person and (2) the model's name was Harlow Cuadra.
Rob,
By all means... please find information to make me wrong... thus far the only thing that you've proven is that you seem to have a mental illness. With all due respect Rob... other than because you say so... what proof do you have?
"For Jim. No. I asked regarding the length of the document clearing the 3 men. 4 pages was the answer."
Then show us the proof Rob... where's the other 1... 2... 3 or 4 pages? You're rants are getting old... and tired... needless to say, I have people from the office you mentioned that will be more than happy to say they never talked to you. Care to elaborate?
Yeah Rob, I tend to agree with PC at this point.
If your "source" told you there were these four extra interesting pages, it is really incumbent on you to ask your source to provide you with copies of these four extra pages, and then post them somewhere for all to see.
'Cause right now, you are making an extraordinary claim, and such claims require extraordinary proof.
Like Geoff Harvard said earlier, we are entering the home stretch, and hence it is a good time for tightening up of facts and the dispelling of myths.
And frankly, this whole "four pages" bit is starting to sound a lot like "...and Sean and Grant put them up to it; everything else is smoke, mirrors and bullshit."
Both look like myths trying to become considered as fact via constant repetition.
Jim--
Easily verified. Ask the Clerk's office. They will tell you how long that document is. That settles the question.
A rant would indicate raving. I let BB do that. Something he has done consistently.
How would you accomplish that PC? The office is closed for the weekend.
PC--
You have misquoted me. I said exactly 4 pages, not extra pages--extra pages that is your spin.
"Both look like myths trying to become considered as fact via constant repetition."
Amen to that... wait until I post Rob's comments accusing me of being a P.I... if only I had so many jobs.
Is this another Elm type bashing?
Wow....I even agree with VJ on his take of Renee. I know of his hatred and distain for me and have no problem with it. He is certainly free to think of me any way he wants. The fact that he relates to Renee (female)instead of me (male) even speaks volumes. Yet I wish him well. My blog "Harlow" is not abandoned it was temporarily suspended.....I had some other situations very important to me that I had to attend. I see you are still up and going so I assume all is well with you!---good. I am as encouraged as ever with the fact that Harlow has killed no one.
My opinion of Joe, Sean and Grant remains the same as well......and it is not good.....you take care and I wish you well.
gone for now, George
Harlow's #1 supporter
"so it looks like his boss asked him to send an email.."
LOOKS LIKE?
that is your proof?
mental illness indeed :)
almost forgot...
Sean and his CobraKiller put them up to it :)
"Oh, and Sean and his evil Cobrakiller have blood on their hands, and Robert Wagner, jealous of Bryan's continuing relationship with the perfidious little Sean, set Bryan up and witnessed the whole thing from the CCTV upstairs."
this had me on the floor - too too funny. good one :)
"This methodology is how I was able to solve this mystery online, back in February of 2007."
oh fukc off you smug *&^%*&^% LOL
"Rob said...
Is this another Elm type bashing?"
you know all about bashing, you do it on the blogs daily!
i told you your gonna drown in your own fat file of bs.
need proof of that? :)
"'This methodology is how I was able to solve this mystery online, back in February of 2007.'
oh fukc off you smug *&^%*&^% LOL"
Presumably, this Wagner/BB statement is directed at me. I did not begin posting on any blog until June of 2007. And this is why YOU WILL NEVER BE CREDIBLE. You cherry pick what you think will help bash, and that is all you do. You double check nothing and never have.
Speaking of fat shit files Wagner, you need a 4x4 truck to get them around.
Albert said it best. For example, you had Kocis' passwords and codes and used them to leave posts at Gay Torrents. That blog administrator saved the posts and related. Spin what you like.
The webcam system existed and was used by Kocis. It is reported in the "The Siren's Tale."
One more time, you were cleared of complicity and nothing more. No statement regarding your whereabouts whatsoever from officialdom.
I've read thru all parts of "Siren's Tale" about 3-4 times in the past, and I don't recall any mention of a Kocis house CCTV.
I'll check again, though. Do you remember what part it was in?
There is a section that details Sean's final days at Kocis' home. Sean mentions looking around Kocis' place, snooping. Kocis stated exactly what Sean was doing by remotely accessing the system.
Hope that clarifies.
But then don't take my word for mention of Kocis' monitoring system. Dewayne will also confirm that point for you. As will Albert. I am sure if you email Sean, he would also confirm it as he was the one who first pointed it out and wrote about in "The Siren's Tale."
"Presumably..."
presume what you like - does not make it FACT.
FACT is you constantly fail to backup your claims - FACT is your claims are ALWAYS proven as LIES.
a few of us tried to tell you in a nice way to be careful what you claim.
you DID drown in your fat file.
you AVOID ALL issues raised to you. you rant about dewayne and albert as backup. you cant do anything on your own.
you created your own situation. now you try hide behind others.
it is not working.
rob, again, in case you missed it 1st time around:
"so it looks like his boss asked him to send an email.."
LOOKS LIKE?
that is your proof?
"You have misquoted me. I said exactly 4 pages, not extra pages--extra pages that is your spin."
Actually, there aren't 4 pages, and you've had a full business day to call back to Luzerne County and at least write down a transcript from the nice person that was willing to recite them to you before... I'd say it's you that's doing the spin, the only point being you have no proof, and have never offered any... other than your word.
Bryan had a surveilance system. I think the other guys are restricted but I have said that before so I can repeat it.
OK, well, I'd like to get that sourced somehow.
Because as I said above, all sorts of conspiracy nuts can wreak havok with an unsourced fact like that.
Was there a camera in the living room? Was it on all the time? Did it survive the fire?
Why was it never mentioned in any known police reports?
A reliable written source might be able to fill in those blanks. No source? Well, then the conspiracy nutters get to fill in those blanks. And thats my concern here.
PC--
Sure has been busy. I called the DA's office this morning. The ADA responsible was in court today and will return my call tomorrow morning if she can.
I also checked with the Times Leader. Same question regarding document length. Ed Lewis was out of the office today. And same question to the Citizen's Voice.
And so we are all clear about one this point, I was told by Grant Roy, through Dewayne, that the document clearing him is 4 pages in length.
So if I were you I would hold off on claiming spin.
No BB is as in used the passwords.
A reliable written source might be able to fill in those blanks.
That source exists. Sean Lockhart, "The Siren's Tale" at Jason Curious.
Yeah, I just re-read the whole thing, and there is not even the vaguest hint of there being a CCTV system at the Kocis home.
rob claims:
"And so we are all clear about one this point, I was told by Grant Roy, through Dewayne, that the document clearing him is 4 pages in length."
that is a problem for you. it is also a problem for the cobrakiller... giving out false (lies) information people like you post as fact. that will be used against the cobrakiller in the future.
now your doing an elm... " blah blah told me so it must be true". "ok i was lied to" is how it ended with elm.
funny to watch you not take responsibility for your own actions and blame others - the cobrakiller and dewayne.
sean lockhart a reliable source? ROFLMFAO!!!
"Sure has been busy. I called the DA's office this morning. The ADA responsible was in court today and will return my call tomorrow morning if she can."
Rob,
With all due respect, the ADA won't be able to talk to you, they're under a gag order.
"I also checked with the Times Leader. Same question regarding document length. Ed Lewis was out of the office today. And same question to the Citizen's Voice."
I highly doubt you'll hear anything from Lewis, and while you may get a response from the CV, I can assure you it'll be the same answer I've been saying.
Why not simply call the clerks office back, as you claimed you did before and have them fax or mail a copy to you?
"Why not simply call the clerks office back, as you claimed you did before and have them fax or mail a copy to you?"
Yeah. And if the clerk wont do it over the phone, you can always call a local NEPA attorney service to do the job. They'll go down to the clerk's office, request the file, make copies as you direct, and fax them to you.
Like I said, I'll feature here what you acquire in a hot minute.
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