This from a court filing just posted by PC. It's from DA Melnick's Answer to Harlow Omnibus Pre-Trial Motion.
And it's language is clear, unmistakable, and unequivocal: In the view of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, accusations against Sean Lockhart, Grant Roy and Robert Wagner for the death of Bryan Kocis are FALSE. Thus, Sean, Grant and Robert are all now officially IN THE CLEAR as to this murder:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that [Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart] were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death." -- DA Melnick
Update: The word seems to be spreading. The Sword runs an article on Brent and his mermanic role in the upcoming movie "Another Gay Sequel." The opening sentence: "Our favorite one-time murder suspect Brent Corrigan revealed a new persona..." (italics mine)
189 comments:
Love the diagram!!
Jim, I actually read this post on PC's site and didn't exactly take it as an official "in the clear" statement, simply that the accusations being leveled by H & J were false. I would love to see it as you do, but. . .
I do see now how it COULD be read as clearing them utterly of ANY wrongdoing, but damn, I wish it said that.
They could still be found guilty of wearing white after Labor Day, I suppose.
But of complicity in this murder, no. The Commonwealth of Pennslyvania has spoken.
I bet we still don't get past "Sean and his Cobrakiller have blood on their hands," or "Robert's Nissan Murano was photographed in the driveway, and he viewed the whole thing on CCTV from upstairs." Somebody shake Ree awake and get that damn cig out of her hands before she burns the damn couch up. Get her to damn bed, anyway. Whew, I just got a whiff of rotten catfish.
And you know, beyond being an official statement of position by the DA's office, there's the underlying evidence this paragraph refers to.
Apparantly, Joe spoke of possibly framing Brent and Grant, until he figured out they were too far away to be good framees:
"In fact, in one phone intercept, the Defendant Kerekes ruminates as to how to lay the blame on Grant Roy and Sean Lockhart, only to further realize that Grant Roy and Sean Lockhart were in California at the time. (See Virginia Beach prison Conversation #96, pg 9, #97)"
This is the Harlow Apology on steroids.
Same sort of "frame attempt" evidence give Robert Wagner a get-out-of-jail free card:
"Not content with the false accusations against Grant Roy and Sean Lockhart, the defendants have also contemplated making false accusations against Robert Wagner according to prison intercepts and a letter turned over to the Commonwealth."
I HATE this role I've taken on as killjoy, I really do.
But the framing attempt was going to be for the actual, physical murder, as I read it, thus making it impossible since they were in California. But does that cover the "putting them up to it" stuff that BB seems so intent on?
I believe that once Joe and Harlow had traveled from VB to WB and checked in to the Fox Whatever Inn, they both went over to Midland Drive in the Xterra. Harlow went in as Danny Moilin, and Joe secreted himself in the car. Bryan was already drunk, and Harlow, after making initial small talk, slashed Bryan's throat. He then gave Joe the high sign and admitted him. The two made the numerous abdominal wounds, but spent most of their time ransacking the place and stealing stuff. Then Joe set the place on fire, and they fled.
will g said...
I HATE this role I've taken on as killjoy, I really do.
But the framing attempt was going to be for the actual, physical murder, as I read it, thus making it impossible since they were in California. But does that cover the "putting them up to it" stuff that BB seems so intent on?
No Will it doesnt , that is still to come. So throw the party now and hope that the party is warranted.
Will, just how does one put another up to a vicious, ritualistic murder? Where is the canceled check? Where is the contract? Where is the promise? Where is the stated desire? Competent investigators have investigated at length, and there is no logical link between the Kocis murder and the three referenced individuals.
Geoff Harvard said...
I believe that once Joe and Harlow had traveled from VB to WB and checked in to the Fox Whatever Inn, they both went over to Midland Drive in the Xterra. Harlow went in as Danny Moilin, and Joe secreted himself in the car. Bryan was already drunk, and Harlow, after making initial small talk, slashed Bryan's throat. He then gave Joe the high sign and admitted him. The two made the numerous abdominal wounds, but spent most of their time ransacking the place and stealing stuff. Then Joe set the place on fire, and they fled.
Not quiet, but really close....
Will, you are being a devil's advocate right now as opposed to a killjoy...which is a good thing.
It makes no sense to point the finger at a co-conspirator. Because if your conspirator goes down, he'll take you down with him.
No, if you are trying to frame someone for something...you have to find a non-conspirator to frame.
Thus it shows Joe knows that Sean, Grant and Robert are all non-conspirators.
You do have a good point there, have to admit.
NOTE ALSO how Melnick makes reference to the Harlow Apology in pointing out how murder accusations against Sean and Grant are false (ahem ahem AHEM!).
:-) <---- (jim beaming with pride)
All right, Jim, stop gloating!!
Madame can now be the official kill -- I mean devil's advocate.
will g said...
All right, Jim, stop gloating!!
Madame can now be the official kill -- I mean devil's advocate.
Not today Will, have to much homework to do.
But there is still more to come, so dont throw the party yet. You may feel it is warranted but dont throw it yet.
Believe me if this was the case i would concede but I think i will hold on the concedeing until the full thing is shown to all and the rest of the evidence comes out. There are still a few more things that Mr. Melnick has not pulled out of his bag of tricks. And I am sure the defense is doing their homework at this time. You all seem to keep jumping for joy at what the prosecution has to say, but what happens when the defense po po's on your party. You will all be up in arms then.
You really should wait on the party!
Ta Ta
Blah blah blah blah blah!
BB has been saying that for months. "Sean and Grant will be arrested ANY day now...!" As a matter of fact, same for Rob concerning Robert Wagner.
And THIS is where we've ended up
Today, July 14, is Exhoneration Day.
In the words of DA Melnick, murder accusations against these three are "false accusations."
GAME OVER.
the murder acusations made by Joe and Harlow. the never mentioned the state. I thought I would claify that
A distinction without a difference. A false accusation does not magically become true when someone else accuses.
I don't really know who is going to be held responsible for the death of Bryan Kocis.
The state is only saying that the accused lied and tried to place the blame on the others.
The state has never said whether or not it is true.
Yes it does ask BB it is true Joe and Harlow did it Robert Wagner helped and Sean and Grant put them all up to it.
They all have blood on their hands!
"The state has never said whether or not it is true."
Except for the 4 times in that section where they say the accusations are false. :-)
Jim--
I have read the version of the statement PC put up on his blog and you used on your blog.
PC abbreviated from the full version. The full statement from the Prosecutor is detailed as to the cooperation Sean and Grant gave to the police and prosecutors.
The blurb about Wagner is lukewarm and does not get detailed about Wagner.
I will be the first to indicate that I do not care for Wagner at all. He is cleared of complicity and that is all. He still has explaining to do regarding the stripped out photo of Harlow in email he sent to Sean.
Next, for Renee, I apologized to her on this very blog for being zealous in my statements regarding your character. How that stretches to me being another blogger is rather a stretch. I have been away from here from Friday forward attending to family concerns. I understand PC has decided on writing style that I am someone else.
I read Thane's first post on Dewayne's blog. It has a question. What dire consequences were you alluding to for Sean and Grant PC? None of us see any.
I will offer this remark about Renee. She is not consistent in her statements here. She makes a statement and is pinned down on it and backtracks. That is problem for trial testimony. She does that on the defense's cross examination she will be impeached.
jim, obviously sean and his cobrakiller did not do the actual killing, they were in CA at the time of the murder, the murder they instigated by spewing HATERD.
i have always believed RW had no involvement what-so-ever.
maybe this new will shut thane/rob up about RW, thou probably not.
this offical declaration saying that none of them committed the murder is no surprise to me.
"...the murder they instigated by spewing HATERD."
Well, you could say that.
But the thing is, there was plenty of hatred, flowing in both directions.
"...the murder they instigated by spewing HATRED."
BB, nobody ever denied that Sean and Grant "spewed hatred" for Bryan, and as Jim says vice versa. But if THAT is what you have been referring to all of this time as "instigating," I think you owe them an apology. This is a free country and people can spew hatred to their heart's desire, it make s them GUILTY OF NOTHING if a psychotic individual(s) then takes it upon themselves to murder the object of the hatred. And, I think deep down, you know Sean and Grant have absolutely no culpability in this murder.
"PC abbreviated from the full version. The full statement from the Prosecutor is detailed as to the cooperation Sean and Grant gave to the police and prosecutors."
Not quite. This is the full version, based upon what was filed. If you have a different version, by all means, please share.
Cross post from PC but relavant here Jim
DA's are VERY Grudging in "Clearing anyone"
The fact they used the phrase "false accusations" in referring to Joe and Harlow's attempt to implicate Sean,Grant and Robert Wagner is telling and powerful.
If for no other reason if they charged any one of the three(Sean,Grant or RW) later this statement would be used against the DA would it not?
We know that Lawyers NEVER use a word (False accusations) with out examining the nuance of every word and the legal implications before a statement is issued.
Case in point after 12 years the DA in Denver Colorado "Cleared"
Mr. Ramsey of suspicion in the death of Jon Benet Ramsey.
After 12 years and new DNA evidence.
In San Diego the 3 boys in the Stephanie Crowe case have never been given a "Statement of Exoneration" in her murder.(one was her 15 yo brother)
Despite the fact the killer a meth addict is serving a life sentence.
In my opinion the phrase repeated three times "False accusations against Sean Lockhart,Grant Roy and Robert Wagner" and the additional "which are bad Acts and admissible against the defendants"
And the statement the accusations will be entered into evidence and used against Joe and Harlow is VERY STRONG legal condemnation by the D.A. of false Accusations in this case.
Exoneration is a strong word but I believe the Luzerne County District Attorney has stated unequivocally
Sean Lockhart
Grant Roy
Robert Wagner
were not complicit in the murder of Bryan Kocis.
To say otherwise is a
False Accusation.
And yes I understand that includes Robert Wagner and I retract ANY insinuation I made to that effect.
I am in awe that so many of you know what happened that January night in the Kocis house. It must have been very crowded in that living room. One huge factor, as Renee mentioned, is every but of information posted on these blogs is from the prosecutorial side of this case. Nothing has been supplied by any of the defense attorneys to rebut, refute, or contradict anything Melnick has presented. So logically in a case such as that, anyone's guilt would seem obvious. No one has any idea what the defense might have as far as discrediting testimony or evidence. So the "party" would be a little premature.
And legally speaking, the DA's document did not exonerate anyone. It simply states that the defendants falsely accused these people -- which legally means they did so without any evidence to back up their accusations. Technically, the state could come back tomorrow and file indictments against all three of those mentioned.
Just wanted to clarify.....
Wrong Gandalf.
The Commonwealth did not label them unfounded accusations. They labeled them FALSE.
Ie, the opposite of true.
And they cited Joe's attempts to frame them, AND the Harlow Apology, as evidence of the total metaphysical falsehood of the accusations.
That is the official position of the Commonwealth of Pennslyvania. They, and ONLY they, have the power to try people for this crime. And they have just announced to the world who they are NOT going to charge.
GAME OVER!
Quoting PC, in part, "Not quite" and "based on the full version."
Your words, "based on the full version," means the official, detailed, version in the records of the Clerk of Court was redacted.
Thanks for clarifying that you summarized PC.
Jim observes "They, and ONLY they, have the power to try people for this crime."
Thane first stated that point on your blog the other day. I got to read all the comments. You are the Sage of the Blogs Jim.
"Nothing has been supplied by any of the defense attorneys to rebut, refute, or contradict anything Melnick has presented."
Since the strategy of the defense attoneys has been to come to hearings unprepared, and then get them delayed on a variety of pretexts in order to tire the state into making a better deal...I think it's fair to say we WONT getting some pie-in-the-sky loony-bin conspiracy theory presented to a jury about how poor Harlow and Joe were somehow framed in all this.
The defense attorneys, unlike anonymous bloggers in this case, are people known in the community. And they are not going to embarrass themselves publically by trying to argue Harlow and Joe's innoncence based on some of the wacky theories floated about on these pro-Harlow blogs.
No. A deal will be cut, I think. Not a great deal, mind you....Harlow and Joe will be able to request two last meals instead of one...something along those lines, I imagine.
It's over, folks.
"And yes I understand that includes Robert Wagner and I retract ANY insinuation I made to that effect."
insinuation? roflmao. whatever...
its a step in the right direction from you after all the obvious lies you and the cobrakiller have spewed about Robert Wagner.
"And yes I understand that includes Robert Wagner and I retract ANY insinuation I made to that effect."
I wonder if the cobrakiller feels this way too. He was particularly evil to Robert Wagner, all the online threats, planted stories and other stuff. lets not forget all the pissing you all did on a dead mans grave too.
IMO, all three are owed apologies by those in the industry who made insinuations otherwise.
Let the apologizing begin.
Gandalf726 said...
I am in awe that so many of you know what happened that January night in the Kocis house. It must have been very crowded in that living room. One huge factor, as Renee mentioned, is every but of information posted on these blogs is from the prosecutorial side of this case. Nothing has been supplied by any of the defense attorneys to rebut, refute, or contradict anything Melnick has presented. So logically in a case such as that, anyone's guilt would seem obvious. No one has any idea what the defense might have as far as discrediting testimony or evidence. So the "party" would be a little premature.
And legally speaking, the DA's document did not exonerate anyone. It simply states that the defendants falsely accused these people -- which legally means they did so without any evidence to back up their accusations. Technically, the state could come back tomorrow and file indictments against all three of those mentioned.
Just wanted to clarify.....
Just felt the need to comment on this. You have covered this very well, but see the party they are throwing is over comments made by Joe and sean , grant and robert. Specifically about the night of the murder. There is nothing said about anything prior to the murder in what has been released, and there are issues with prior to the murder on Jan 24,2007. You all seem to think that only referencing that day is all that matters that is not the case.
Maybe the part should wait until all the conversations come out, and the different version of the Le Crique dinner is put out in writing. That is what i found really interesting. And this part of the story has been consistant. So throw the party get excited, but remember there is more to come. I have not one issue with anyone that conspired or did actually kill bryan being tired and convicted, it just needs to be done in a court of law, not the law of the blogs.
jim said...
IMO, all three are owed apologies by those in the industry who made insinuations otherwise.
Let the apologizing begin.
Might want to hold off on them apologies until the whole story is released, once it is if apologies are due, I will be the first to apologize, without a shadow of a doubt. But at this point i know for sure there is more , there was only limited information put out,So i for one want to hear the whole thing first. I am sure these others that have to aplogize would like to know the whole story also...
Renee, I have seen no comments or statements made by Robert Wagner on any of these blogs.
Well, the subject of this post comes from the court of law.
And in this court filing, the Commonwealth of Pennslyvania has made it's official position known to the world: Accusations of blame for this murder against Sean, Grant and Robert are false.
Anything the defense lawyers may spew about this is irrelevant. Only the DA has the power to prosecute. They do not.
And the DA has made his call.
jim said...
Well, the subject of this post comes from the court of law.
And in this court filing, the Commonwealth of Pennslyvania has made it's official position known to the world: Accusations of blame for this murder against Sean, Grant and Robert are false.
Anything the defense lawyers may spew about this is irrelevant. Only the DA has the power to prosecute. They do not.
And the DA has made his call.
Interpert it the way you want, there was nothing in there that says they are exonerated! it says joe and harlow were trying to drag them in on the night of the murder and that they were lying about that and about RW. Ok so they were lying about that, that is clearly on the phones tapes when joe says they were in california, but does this prove prior to the murder... NO it does not. And if this were the case why did Sean and Grant need a lawyer and wait so long to contact the police about this whole thing? They should of went immediatley to the police and they didnt they went to a lawyer, ok makes me think, you go to lawyer you must be needing to cover your ass before you talk to talk to anyone. why did they need to speak with a lawyer prior to helping the police. If they did not wrong then they could of just done the right thing and helped the police....
As Sean says on his blog:
Sunday, July 6th Grant and I voluntarily traveled to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania to sit on the stand and declare we consented to the wire tap.
How do you consider the choices of you either go, or you go to jail... now that is voluntarily for sure... no matter what sean says, if he didnt show up he would of went directly to jail and would not have passed go and collect his two hundred dollars. If this is considered voluntarily then I guess me getting on the plane last month without a subpeona or anything was voluntarily until they decided to due there bond thing. Well seems kinda funny to me but for sure without a doubt this bond issue will be cleared up with and attorney, to bring it to PPO's attention at the next hearing.
Ta Ta
Hey, the devil's lawyer is back.
Jim, you know I fully believe in H & J's guilt and the other three's complete innocence. But I'm also wary of blanket statements when it comes to the law. Has there never been a murder trial where the defendant was found by the jury to be not guilty, and the D.A. based upon new evidence went on to charge somebody else? Legally speaking, I think prosecutors are very wary of issuing statements that "clear" people for that reason.
There will be no "not guilty" verdict in this case, IMO, and no subsequent prosecution of anybody else. But this is why I don't believe it is completely accurate to say that this document "clears" or "exonerates" the three. It's probably just semantics, but the law is all about semantics.
"Legally speaking, I think prosecutors are very wary of issuing statements that "clear" people for that reason."
Precisely, Will. This is precisely my point.
Look at this filing statement in context. The prosecution is trying to introduce various "bad acts" of Harlow and Joe to prove their guilt. And this...is "bad act B" of A, B and C.
Note the DA did not have to say this; that these accusations are false. The DA could have just gone with A and C. In addition to the mountain of other evidence they have.
That they specifically included B, when they certainly did not have to, shows they have abandoned all thought of holding Sean, Grant and Robert responsible for this murder.
As if they ever had such ideas in first place.
"but does this prove prior to the murder... NO it does not."
Yes Renee, actually it does.
Note how Melnick relies on the Harlow Apology to show the accusations against Seand and Grant are false.
The Harlow Apology shows there was NO "prior to the murder" involvement by Sean and Grant.
And Melnick is citing it. IN COURT, not in the blogs, IN COURT. Just like you like it!
Read it and weep Renee, read it and weep!
madame said,
Maybe the part [sic]should wait until all the conversations come out, and the different version of the Le Crique [sic[dinner is put out in writing.
Whose different version?
Jim dont count your chickens on that. That phone conversation that melnick used for that is missing a large part. The other part is the better part.... So dont throw the party yet whether you want to beleive it or not!
Jim--
Gandalf wrote regarding the term "exoneration." Exoneration is a special term in law. It has to do with clearing individuals who have been convicted and sentenced in a criminal proceeding. The key idea being a trial was held and the suspect convicted.
In this case, regarding Sean, Grant, and Robert the term "cleared" is the only one that can actually be used. I am detailing the legal protocols here for ease of understanding. Exoneration and pardon are particular legal terms with very precise meaning.
Exoneration is the state that occurs when a suspect who has been convicted of a crime is later proved to have been innocent of that crime. Attempts to exonerate convicts are particularly controversial in death penalty cases, especially where new evidence is put forth after the execution has taken place.
Most of the exonerations have taken place as a result of advances in DNA testing. For example, the first convict from a United States' prison to be released on account of DNA testing was David Vasquez, in 1989. Recently, DNA evidence has been used to exonerate a number of persons either on death row or serving lengthy prison sentences. As of October, 2003, the number of states authorizing convicts to request DNA testing on their behalf, since 1999, has increased from two to thirty. Access to DNA testing varies greatly by degree; post-conviction tests can be difficult to acquire.
Organizations like the Innocence Project are particularly concerned with the exoneration of those who have been convicted based on weak evidence. As of October 2003, prosecutors of criminal cases must approve the defendant's request for DNA testing of in certain.
On Monday, April 23, 2007, Jerry Miller became the 200th person in the United States to be exonerated through the use of DNA evidence. There is a national campaign in support of the formation of state Innocence Commissions, statewide entities that identify causes of wrongful convictions and develop state reforms that can improve the criminal justice system.
Hope this helps advance understanding on the concepts and uses of a legal term.
Renee get to the point. You either have or don't have proof of complicity. You are muddying the waters. The DA wrote that the three were cleared, not may be, possibly, potentially cleared. That is an unchanging fact and filed with the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's office in greater detail than reported in PC's redaction.
madame said,
And if this were the case why did Sean and Grant need a lawyer and wait so long to contact the police about this whole thing? They should of went immediatley to the police and they didnt they went to a lawyer, ok makes me think, you go to lawyer you must be needing to cover your ass before you talk to talk to anyone. why did they need to speak with a lawyer prior to helping the police.
Bryan's murder was about 10 days after the dinner at Le Cirque. The Affidavit of Probable Cause gives Grant Roy's version, told to the PA authorities, of what transpired at that dinner. From his version, it is clear that he thought that Harlow and Joe were contemplating murdering Bryan. At this point he says that he changed the subject. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
Sean learned about the murder the morning after it happened when Harlow called him at work and told him to check the web site of the WNEP television station. There Sean learned of the murder. He says that he was upset by the news. Whatever, he left work early,returned home, and reported the news to Grant.
The two of them, recognizing that the discussion at Le Cirque might implicate them in the crime, consulted John Yates, the lawyer who had represented them in the civil suit with Bryan. Yates, not being a criminal lawyer, advised them to get one and then go the police. Yates announced this to the press a few days after the murder.
In short, it was prudent under the circumstances for Sean and Grant to consult a criminal lawyer, and they did not wait "so long" before talking to the police.
Have you consulted a lawyer in connection with your role in this case? If not, you may regret it.
Renee, whatever else is on that phone call is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
And apparantly, as far as Melnick is concerned too: "The Defendants have also falsely suggested that other persons were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death. More specifically, the Defendants have discussed laying the blame, on among other people, Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart."
Despite whatever crap Joe said on the phone that day, Melnick is convinced neither Sean, Grant or Robert "were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
If you notice, that is an exact quote. And it's not limited to any time or place. It refers to responsibility for Kocis' death, PERIOD.
This is not my words, or even my interpretation of the words. It's words themselves, written in plain English.
You have an issue with that? Fine. Talk to Melnick. They are his words, not mine. I'm sure you have his number on your speed dial.
In the absense of any retraction of that statement from the DA, the plain meaning of those words say that the Commonwealth of PA considers ALL accusations for ANY responsibility for the death of Bryan Kocis against those three to be false.
"Exoneration is the state that occurs when a suspect who has been convicted of a crime is later proved to have been innocent of that crime."
Rob, you have a point there...I think I'll change the post title word to "Cleared."
Rob said...
Renee get to the point. You either have or don't have proof of complicity. You are muddying the waters. The DA wrote that the three were cleared, not may be, possibly, potentially cleared. That is an unchanging fact and filed with the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's office in greater detail than reported in PC's redaction.
ok , Rob so the last year and a half that you have been swearing that robert wagner was involved, and now you now what to believe with what is out now, do you care to explain how robert wagner was involved? do you know something the DA doesnt, or maybe just maybe you were wrong also!
Wasnt it you that claimed that robert wagners car was in the driveway that night?
I will wait for what is coming at the trial before i concede on this one and if i am wrong i will concede then and only then.
Glad to have helped you out Jim.
"I will wait for what is coming at the trial before i concede on this one and if i am wrong i will concede then and only then."
Hypothetically*, what if there is no trial?
*(no pun intended)
Renee you don't read well. One more time. I said here that Wagner was cleared by the DA of complicity in this murder. He still has explaining to do for the stripping out of Harlow's photo from the email he sent to Sean Lockhart. Was Wagner's car in Kocis' driveway. Could be. Ask Joe and Harlow. They had plates run for a Nissan Murano with NY tags. And you were in a better position being the phone operator for those 3 and 4 way phone calls to know.
Got proof, quite your continual sniping and state it. All of yes are tired of the jaded housewife/businesswoman crap.
jim said...
Renee, whatever else is on that phone call is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
And apparantly, as far as Melnick is concerned too: "The Defendants have also falsely suggested that other persons were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death. More specifically, the Defendants have discussed laying the blame, on among other people, Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart."
Despite whatever crap Joe said on the phone that day, Melnick is convinced neither Sean, Grant or Robert "were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
If you notice, that is an exact quote. And it's not limited to any time or place. It refers to responsibility for Kocis' death, PERIOD.
This is not my words, or even my interpretation of the words. It's words themselves, written in plain English.
You have an issue with that? Fine. Talk to Melnick. They are his words, not mine. I'm sure you have his number on your speed dial.
In the absense of any retraction of that statement from the DA, the plain meaning of those words say that the Commonwealth of PA considers ALL accusations for ANY responsibility for the death of Bryan Kocis against those three to be false.
Jim beleive what you want Melnick did not say anywhere that they were cleared of any thing to do with this crime. He did not say that they were innocent of any charges or cleared, so you take it the way you want it , and if you are wrong have to back up ok, becuase i will be the first to say i told you so if i am right and the first to say i concede and you were right if this is the case... But you need to let the da present there whole case and the defense present there case before you bet on this being a sure thing.
I guess you were a fly on the wall and were there that night. I know that sean and grant and rw were not there at the time of the murder and the phone calls do say this, melnick just didnt release the whole transcript of that converstaion. You should read the rest of them before you come to any conclusion, joe admits things and admits them again. so i will reserve your glorified party until this is confirmed and no charges are filed against any of them.
jim said...
"I will wait for what is coming at the trial before i concede on this one and if i am wrong i will concede then and only then."
Hypothetically*, what if there is no trial?
If they plead the terms of the plea might require them to explain what happened. But then it might now happen that way. According to Joe and Harlow they will be taking this to trial, as they say we have nothing to lose at this point.
I think Joe, Harlow, Renee, Nep, Barry, Mitch, Robert, Sean, Grant, Jeffery, Cherly, Rosalie,Capt, sorry if I missed anybody else out there, I think that nobody did no wrong and should be exhonerated from all of this. Nobody did no wrong in this case. Why cannot all of yall belive this. There is no evidence pointing to nobody in this case. Why are we even here.
Oh Jim and hypothetically if it doesnt go to trial i will be paying for a copy of all of the phone conversations and posting them over the next year for all to see.
"Jim beleive what you want Melnick did not say anywhere that they were cleared of any thing to do with this crime. He did not say that they were innocent of any charges or cleared,..."
Except for where Melnick said that neither Sean, Grant or Robert "were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
"Madame said...
Oh Jim and hypothetically if it doesnt go to trial i will be paying for a copy of all of the phone conversations and posting them over the next year for all to see."
I hope you do; can't wait to read 'em!
Prof said to madame...
Have you consulted a lawyer in connection with your role in this case? If not, you may regret it.
No by her own admission she did not which is INCREDIBLY INCREDIBLY STUPID!
If anything the Innocence project has proven out ANYONE especially the INNOCENT needs a Lawyer the moment you have even superficial contact with the judicial system.
Renee YOU NEEDED (and STILL NEED)a Lawyer the reason you were considered a hostile witness and $50,000 unsecured bail was imposed is because you did not have LEGAL REPRESENTATION!
Anyone who does not have a lawyer in a case where their is potential legal jeopardy is in danger.
In Fact Renee Martin you should have a lawyer right now...
he would tell you as a state witness you should not be making statements which will be used against you in court.
If the DA has declared Joe and Harlows "False Accusations" against S & G & RW are Bad Acts with legal consequences what is Melnick to do with you?
Renee Martin who has no lawyer?
I would get a criminal lawyer STAT!
Its not too late.
I am not being mean a neighbor of mine is an experienced criminal defense attorney.
He is the one who said
"Anyone who does not have a lawyer in a case where their is potential legal jeopardy is in danger."
Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:
1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.
2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.
3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.
So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).
Dewayne, Reneee does not need a lawyer. She committed no crimes.
Rob committed crimes.
You claimed RW was involved in the murder.
Now you and Rob backtrack.
Too late.
All your lies and crimes are documented, as are the CobraKillers.
"I am not being mean a neighbor of mine is an experienced criminal defense attorney."
Ask him about making direct threats and downloading/uploading questionable twink porn, as well as big studio's porn.
I already know the answer, no need to post your findings.
Retain this person. It is advisable as the penalty for such crimes is severe.
Oh God, is Kentie awake?
"Your words, "based on the full version," means the official, detailed, version in the records of the Clerk of Court was redacted."
By all means Rob, please tell us. Is this going to be similar to your claims that Robert Wagner was at the house during the murder?
D'wayne, You are absolutely correct.
Renee may not be in jeopardy in this case, where her only role is to testify to the authenticity of the tapes of conversations in which she was a party.
However, the allegation that she was a "business associate" in the illegal prostitution ring being run by Boybstter in Virginia might subject her to criminal prosecution in that jurisdiction.
I have fortunately never been a defendant in a criminal case, but I have several times been one in civil cases arising out of my role as a corporate director. (I've been on the winning side in all these cases). I have learned that one should never involve oneself in court proceedings without consulting a lawyer.
Maybe Renee has consulted a lawyer, but if she had I'm sure he would have advised her not to post as often on the Kocisspehre as she has done.
bb said,
Dewayne, Reneee does not need a lawyer. She committed no crimes.
That remains to be seen, as I've suggested in another comment.
bb said,
All your lies and crimes are documented, as are the CobraKillers.
Could you be specific?
And I'll add my agreement to the lawyer advice.
Even if you've done nothing wrong, it is a VERY good idea to have one to consult with in a situation like this.
BB said...
All your lies and crimes are documented, as are the CobraKillers.
That's our BB! Back with the threats and false accusations. Just wouldn't be the same with out you, BB, don't ever change.
BB--
You engaged in that behavior against many bloggers so give it a rest.
Well, PC. You were the one who claimed no one could park more than one car in the driveway at Midland and backed down after both Dewayne and myself pointed out how that was the case. Renee herself answered BB's question about a vehicle with NY tags on the Son of Sam blog--that would be one Jim Martin has. Comes from Joe and Harlow. Did they make it up? Ask Renee. She's a fountain of information by her own admission.
Incidentally, Renee is a material witness under bond. That situation does not apply to Sean and Grant.
And now that you are here, what dire consequences were to befall Sean and Grant in Pennsylvania?
However, the allegation that she was a "business associate" in the illegal prostitution ring being run by Boybstter in Virginia might subject her to criminal prosecution in that jurisdiction.
That would be way before my time. sorry you are mistaken on that one. The illegal prostitution ring was shut down when they went to jail, so how was i running it, and where does anything say i was running the prostitution ring?
From Dewayne to Renee regarding attorney for Renee.
I TOTALLY agree with Dewayne. You do not have to do anything [and I know you did not] to have problems, big ones. PLEASE consider his advice, it was in your best interest only and was excellent advice.
Geoff said:
I bet we still don't get past "Sean and his Cobrakiller have blood on their hands," or "Robert's Nissan Murano was photographed in the driveway, and he viewed the whole thing on CCTV from upstairs." Somebody shake Ree awake and get that damn cig out of her hands before she burns the damn couch up. Get her to damn bed, anyway. Whew, I just got a whiff of rotten catfish.
I smell worse things then catfish, more like dead maggots dwelling on dead carcass, you being the dead carcass. The bed and the sofa were burned up last week! Sorry you are a little late.
Now down to the fact i can have an opinion just like you if you dont like it that is your issue. You can call whoever you want names including me and you can accuse me of whatever you want, I will still have my own opinions and your tactics will not change that. As we can see Jim strickly adheres to his policy of no name calling on this blog by allowing someone like you to post the things you say to anyone that does not agree with you, put your money where your mouth is , I told thane, rob, grant, prof, and any other one who are at the sean and grant innocent party, 2500.00 is up for grabs, if sean and grant dont get charged with "anything"you win the 2500.00. If they get charged with "anything" then you owe me 2500.00 I am willing to put money on this are you? Only a scared whiner would back down! So either put up or shut up!
"Well, PC. You were the one who claimed no one could park more than one car in the driveway at Midland and backed down after both Dewayne and myself pointed out how that was the case."
Okay... so other than your wrong opinion... what evidence do you have now?
"Incidentally, Renee is a material witness under bond. That situation does not apply to Sean and Grant."
Nor does it apply to Robert Wagner.
"And now that you are here, what dire consequences were to befall Sean and Grant in Pennsylvania?"
I guess the same you predicted that would happen with Robert Wagner.
There's one difference though, I know a lot more than you do in regards to this case, and haven't made any judgements.
Please Rob, post what 'official' information you have.
I asked one question what dire consequences for Sean and Grant?
Enough cryptic bull. You either have something or you don't. Otherwise, you seem terribly antagonistic toward two men you have never met with a variation on BB's theme of they have blood on their hands.
How am I wrong about the parking situation at Kocis'? You made a concession to Dewayne and I. I saved the remark. Photographic proof lays your view in the dust.
The close up photo of Sean in aviator sunglasses and sitting in the Jetta doesn't show Kocis' driveway. The long distance photos shot of this same subject does show the driveway. Behind the Jetta and to the driver's right, is Kocis' SUV. So two cars can park there PC. That photo remains available in Sean's album. It's also still available on the Cobra site. Proof PC. And, then long before these blogs PC, Sean made his statement about parking. That's fact checking.
No name calling please guys, thanks.
Ree, Sean Lockhart and Grant Roy will not be charged with any crime in conection with the Bryan Kocis murder. You do not have $2,500.00, so the bet is on, but I will not collect. Whew. Gag.
Blogger BB said...
Dewayne, Reneee does not need a lawyer. She committed no crimes.
BB I really thought you were smarter than this.
Renee Martin committed a crime when she facilitated 3 way & 4way communications Between Joe and Harlow.
This is a Crime in any state she subverted justice and she was reported by three people.
The fact she has not been charged is immaterial she is in fact now a state Material Witness on $50,000 unsecured bail which can be revoked at any time if she "fails to perform"
She needed a Lawyer when her husband reported her and she needs one now.
In addition Renee IF you had a lawyer they would advise you this statement puts you in legal jeopardy...
"I told thane, rob, grant, prof, and any other one who are at the sean and grant innocent party, 2500.00 is up for grabs, if sean and grant dont get charged with "anything"you win the 2500.00. If they get charged with "anything" then you owe me 2500.00 I am willing to put money on this are you? Only a scared whiner would back down! So either put up or shut up!"
What you are saying Renee Martin is Sean and Grant are complicit in the murder of Bryan Kocis.
Melnick has stated this is a "False Accusation" & "A Bad Act" which will be entered into evidence in Court AGAINST Joe and Harlow.
Your continuing to state a baseless and false accusation means you are a Hostile Witness to the DA as you are ATTACKING the credibilty of 2 state witnesses.
You are also engaging in witness intimidation against two state witnesses.
All will be duly reported to The DA.
If you had a Lawyer Renee they would have told you this.
"How am I wrong about the parking situation at Kocis'?"
Since it's been officially determined that Robert Wagner was not "responsible for Bryan Kocis' death" isn't the whole issue of driveway width now moot?
Geoff Harvard said...
Ree, Sean Lockhart and Grant Roy will not be charged with any crime in conection with the Bryan Kocis murder. You do not have $2,500.00, so the bet is on, but I will not collect. Whew. Gag.
Gag as you will, as for the money buddy it is there for sure. I do not work for an hourly wage as you do and dont have to worry about having five bucks to put in the gas tank. AS for if you will collect well the trial will tell that and whether there are any charges filed. I have no issue paying up if they are not charged with any crime, that means nothing and that includes prostitution while in the Pennsylvania. So you have it the bet is on, but i am sure when something crops up you will say that you never agree to the bet so i will go ahead and take a snap shot of this and also copy and paste your comment to a word doc for future use..... Dont put money up you dont have. And thanks for the new tires you will be buying for my mercedes........ oh goody how special that i will get free set of tires. ( and as for who has the money, honey i paid more for my car then you make in a year. Let alone the boat , the 2 jet skis, the two trucks and the gto we own and lets not forget the two four wheelers, the two trailers and oh so much more , dont think you want to go here on material items , i pretty much have any material item you could want for. And my husband covers the jewlery department quiet well for me. So if you want to go round for round,bring on your poor ass!
Renee Martin committed a crime when she facilitated 3 way & 4way communications Between Joe and Harlow.
This is a Crime in any state she subverted justice and she was reported by three people.
Sorry dewayne not a crime unless the jail phone they are calling from says you cannot make three way calls and this i did check with an attorney, since the jail recording does not have this i have violated no law.
She needed a Lawyer when her husband reported her and she needs one now
My husband did what? please give it a break, the phone calls made to the Da and the state police were by choice for both of us. Especially after joe and harlow wanted me to go to south florida to there apartment and get all of there belongings, when this happened and not knowing if the police had been there we both contacted them , they did not care about this apartment or what was in it. they were given the address and such and just didnt give a shit, hell if i wanted to go to jail i could of just went there and got all of there stuff and never notified the police of the apartment and the address to such. But since i did not want to enter a potential crime scene i did not go there.
You are also engaging in witness intimidation against two state witnesses.
No dewayne just placing an open bet on a blog, and i have informed the psp tonite that i did this, and witness intimidation is what sean did on his blog when he claims that i did something to him that he asked for , dont bash women , i dont bash him for being gay.. Have respect and you get respect, he has none, he is the one with mommy syndrome issues and dislikes women cause of it, and believe me if i put it on here the psp knows about it, i dont lie about anything, i will tell them just as well tell you. If they dont like the truth then do what you have to do, when the time comes for a lawyer if it is needed i will get one and he will or she will take care of this issue, as geoff said : he will never get paid on the bet, hell the lawyer will gladly take my money, they have no issue with taking money.
Specifically the jail recording says: You have a collect call from ________. At the Luzerne(lackawanna) county prison. This call may be monitored or recorded. to accept the charges for this call, press 1 , to refuse this call hang up. This call is from an inmate telephone system. To replay this message press 1, To speak to the inmate please remain on the line.
As received in a copy from inmate telephone, please call 814-949-3303 if you would like your copy of the introduction when you are called by an inmate.
What you are saying Renee Martin is Sean and Grant are complicit in the murder of Bryan Kocis.
Melnick has stated this is a "False Accusation" & "A Bad Act" which will be entered into evidence in Court AGAINST Joe and Harlow.
Your continuing to state a baseless and false accusation means you are a Hostile Witness to the DA as you are ATTACKING the credibilty of 2 state witnesses
No Dewayne i base this off of copies of phone recordings that i received from the DA. on the front page of jims blog it says on the part where melnick supposidly says what you are claiming : See virginia beach prison conversation # 96 pg 9 # 97 (check the document you posted) on # 96 page 9 it says and it was said by me not joe that on a blog i read that there were three people involved in this crime joe says no absoultly not only two, i tell him what i am reading on the blog about sean and grant and robert, he says not sean and grant were in san diego, so melnick has an issue with this claim there is nothing on this page that says joe tried to implicate any of them, it says what i was reading off of a blog to him about sean , grant and robert, joe at no time agrees with it and clearly states that sean and grant were in san diego without a doubt at the time of the murder. I am quiet sure the defense will have a blast with this one. I told you all is not what it looks like, some people take things and manipulate them to what they want them to be, mr. melnick did this with this phone call, but from the transcript to what he put is a large difference. If and when asked about this in court i will for sure state the obvious about this phone conversation , that i was reading joe a blog entry and that was what was said on the blog about sean, grant, and robert, it clearly does not come from joes mouth! Like i said before I know much more then you do and i am willing to put money where my mouth is on this one. Dont be so sure that everything that you read is what it really is, melnick cant change the transcripts so this should be fun. Its kinda like that bond think , gonna be really fun when Mr. Daughtery finds out there was a complaint filed with the pennsylvania bar for him lying to the judge at that hearing. It only gets so much better.
Jim--
Not exactly. BB solicited from Renee Martin at SoS blog, information about the Nissan Murano with NY tags.
This coinciding with PC's introduction of Renee Martin at his blog.
I detect a bias. Robert Wagner statements against Sean and Grant's interest are accepted by PC. Whereas statements indicating Robert Wagner's interest are downplayed. That would be bias, not objectivity.
I had a roommate whose friend was in jail once. And the one thing I do remember was, those collect calls you get from prison are ****astronomically**** expensive. They were like, $8 a minute or something ridiculous like that.
Apparantly, prison phone calls are a monopoly run by a private service contractor doing business with prison...and they exploit their monopoly to the hilt.
When the phone bill arrived every month, we would cringe.
It got to the point where my roommate started refusing the calls, saying that he "wasn't in"...
jim said...
I had a roommate whose friend was in jail once. And the one thing I do remember was, those collect calls you get from prison are ****astronomically**** expensive. They were like, $8 a minute or something ridiculous like that.
Apparantly, prison phone calls are a monopoly run by a private service contractor doing business with prison...and they exploit their monopoly to the hilt.
When the phone bill arrived every month, we would cringe.
It got to the point where my roommate started refusing the calls, saying that he "wasn't in"...
Very true jim they are outrageous for out of state that is why i had a local cell phone hooked up there last year, the calls are like 4.00 for a local call, but as of today i am free from all the taped conversations to never have to endure a call from joe or harlow again in this lifetime.... The phone is officially dead as of today and with the blessing of the DA and psp. Now this was something to throw a party over. Never to have joe calling sometimes 75 times in a day cause i would not answer the phone, would just keep calling back over and over again, when i came back last week i said i was done with the phone calls told them before i left there and now they are offically over , the phone is off................ RElIEF FINALLY
Rob said...
Jim--
Not exactly. BB solicited from Renee Martin at SoS blog, information about the Nissan Murano with NY tags.
Rob i only know this story about the vehicle in the driveway , not what kind of vehicle, just a vehicle with ny tags, i have no idea whose vehicle it was, and i was never told whose it was, but this story did come from joe, and with 99% of the stuff joe says is a lie, i dont believe much of it. But i see that some bloggers who keep calling me his business associate, seem to think joe is an up standing and truthful guy, he lies about everything else but me being his business partner. Yah right. He only lies to you people when you want it to be a lie other than that alter boy joe tells the truth, GET REAL! Joe wouldnt know the truth if it shot him in the ass.
"But i see that some bloggers who keep calling me his business associate,..."
Actually Renee, it's not just bloggers; I noticed the Times Leader called you their "business agent" yesterday:
"After they were arrested in May 2007, investigators recorded jailhouse telephone calls between Cuadra, Kerekes and their business agent, Renee Martin, where the three made up an alibi story, court records say."
http://www.timesleader.com/news/DA__Pair_worked_on_alibi_plan_07-13-2008.html
Blogger Madame said...
Rob i only know this story about the vehicle in the driveway , not what kind of vehicle, just a vehicle with ny tags, i have no idea whose vehicle it was, and i was never told whose it was, but this story did come from joe, and with 99% of the stuff joe says is a lie, i dont believe much of it. But i see that some bloggers who keep calling me his business associate, seem to think joe is an up standing and truthful guy, he lies about everything else but me being his business partner. Yah right. He only lies to you people when you want it to be a lie other than that alter boy joe tells the truth, GET REAL! Joe wouldnt know the truth if it shot him in the ass.
Except Renee when Joe says Sean and Grant were complicit in Bryans murder thats the 1% of Joes lies you choose to believe!
Your not sitting on the fence, your on the other side lobbing Firebombs at Melnick and his two state witnesses.
You are making "false accusations" that S & G were involved and complicit in the murder of Bryan Kocis.
There is not one iota of legal difference in what YOU are saying
and what Joe and Harlow are saying.
Your complicit(with Joe) in the "False accusations"
That "bad act" will be used against them and you in court.
You NEED legal advice!
Madame - The last thing I want to do is get involved in an argument between yourself and DeWayne, believe me. But I just have one question concerning your responses to him.
In the comment stamped 6:25 AM, you are replying to his assertion that your insistence that Sean and Grant are complicit in the crime means that you are a hostile witness. Your reply, with all due respect, does not seem to address that issue, but instead deals with the issue of how the DA misrepresented the contents of a phone transcript -- that he said Joe said something that he did not say. That may very well be true, but does not seem relevant to the charge made by DeWayne.
In all of your other replies you deal with his assertions quite forthrightly and directly. Could you go reread that one comment, and perhaps answer that one a bit more directly? Thanks!
"Not exactly. BB solicited from Renee Martin at SoS blog, information about the Nissan Murano with NY tags.
This coinciding with PC's introduction of Renee Martin at his blog.
I detect a bias. Robert Wagner statements against Sean and Grant's interest are accepted by PC. Whereas statements indicating Robert Wagner's interest are downplayed. That would be bias, not objectivity."
Rob,
You just won't let it go will you?
I detect someone being hard-headed... but that's okay, god forbid you're actually wrong on something. :)
I'm done with this discussion, time to work on things that really matter.
g said...
Madame - The last thing I want to do is get involved in an argument between yourself and DeWayne, believe me. But I just have one question concerning your responses to him.
In the comment stamped 6:25 AM, you are replying to his assertion that your insistence that Sean and Grant are complicit in the crime means that you are a hostile witness. Your reply, with all due respect, does not seem to address that issue, but instead deals with the issue of how the DA misrepresented the contents of a phone transcript -- that he said Joe said something that he did not say. That may very well be true, but does not seem relevant to the charge made by DeWayne.
In all of your other replies you deal with his assertions quite forthrightly and directly. Could you go reread that one comment, and perhaps answer that one a bit more directly? Thanks!
Will lets get this very clear so that every one can understand this. It does not make a rats ass who is complicit in this crime, who ever is involved needs to go to jail. Second thing is , i am not hostile to the state, they need to tell the truth just like i keep telling joe and harlow, if mr melnick lies or stretches something there could be a chance of them getting off, thank you but no thank you, i do not want to be on joes or harlows next hit list. Whether you people understand this or not, if either one of them got out of there they would do harm to alot of people on that witness list, myself included. Third you can all make what you want about the sean and grant issue, unless someone agrees with you, you try to beat them down, you should all slow down and wait till the rest of the information comes out, as i have said before it i am wrong i will concede and apologize, but not until then, if there were more then two people involved in bryans death or helped in it, then everyone needs to be prosecuted ,doesnt make a difference if it werent sean and grant either, If it were someone else they need to face there punishment as well as joe and harlow. None of you has any respect for the kocis family it is all about poor sean and what brian did to him, well i hate to tell you sean is prancing about showing his ass and still breathing, brian is gone, does not exist anymore and all you can do is bash him for and over sean,that is big bullshit, Sean stayed with bryan cause he wanted the money that he could get out of him, no matter how bad it was sean stayed, so i really dont give a shit about his sirens tale and all the rest of his tales , lets not even talk about how he is the one that provoked the kocis family at the court house, you poeple all live in fairy tale sean land, get your heads out of seans ass and wake up, he is nothing more then a pretty boy that will be used up and history in the porn business in a couple of years, and maybe before then if he gets charged with any crime , the studios wont touch him, so you should all prepare that it might happen, it might happen to anyone,
Dewayne as for advice about an attoney stuff it up your ass, you are soon to need an attorney , as the owner of dewayne in san diego, remember you are a blog owner, heaven forbid they should drag your special ass into court.
Except Renee when Joe says Sean and Grant were complicit in Bryans murder thats the 1% of Joes lies you choose to believe!
NO i am sorry i dont believe that 1% of joes lies, what i believe is from what i read and have scene, and if nothing comes of it that is fine, if they get charges with something well then i guess my gut feeling was right... Usually is
Your not sitting on the fence, your on the other side lobbing Firebombs at Melnick and his two state witnesses.
I only wish i could lob fireballs at seans whining ass. It would probably be as fun as throwing water ballons at him while he whines he is cold, Mr. Melnick clearly knows my position on this when i was asked about this i told him what i thought and what my opinion is, i am sure if he does not want to hear it then he will manage away around it in court, But be sure i have already advised them that if sean tries one of his little stunts again, i will put it out there and i sure will do it with the media.
You are making "false accusations" that S & G were involved and complicit in the murder of Bryan Kocis.
Know i am not making false accusations , you take it for what you want it to be, you should know more before you run your mouth dewayne. I never said they killed bryan kocis, and i do not believe they did or that rw killed bryan kocis, the only people that killed bryan were joe and harlow, but i will not at anytime concede that there was no involvement with anyone else. Just like i am there business associate, sean and grant are there business assocaite, and joe and harlow were gonna make sean and grant there business asscociates happy, no matter what the cost
There is not one iota of legal difference in what YOU are saying
and what Joe and Harlow are saying.
Yes there is dewayne you just dont want to hear it, if said sean was innocent and so was grant you would be happier then a pig in shit, but cause i wont say it you bash my opinion, well sorry that i know a little more about this then you do, if there is an issue maybe you should get a lawyer, seems like you will be needing one.
PC--
I detect a guy who doesn't want to address the issue of "dire consequences" that he raised for Sean and Grant.
That Martin had those phone calls is a fact. You trying to tell me that Joe lied every minute of the waking day and in those calls? I doubt it. Joe's a grifter at base. At some level, something of what he says must be based in truth or his grifting goes up in smoke.
You imply a claim substantial proof against Sean and Grant. Marvelous. Produce it. Otherwise, it is faux drama, base one upmanship. Reworded, I wouldn't rely too much on Wagner's information. He has an axe to grind with Sean carrying with it an appointment with destiny.
Thank you once again for grudgingly conceeding that Kocis' Midland driveway could park more than one car across. At least you now know where to obtain the long distance photo, shot by Kocis, of Sean sitting in the driver's compartment and Kocis' SUV to the right rear of the Jetta, with considerable space for backing out. Sure hate for you to not have your substantial fact pile miss out on being thorough.
No more stubborn than you PC.
Renee--
Got proof? If not, you are wasting everyone's time.
No personal attacks here, please...thanks!
Rob, i have your proof please get a letter from DA Melnick that i can give you copies and i will be glad to provide it to you, i was told not to allow anyone to read or see those documents. So please remit the letter stating that i can release them to you and i will be glad to provide you with some excetional reading...
And DA Melnick has just furnished us all his official opinion as to that proof:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that [Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart] were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
jim said...
And DA Melnick has just furnished us all his official opinion as to that proof:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that [Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart] were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
Ya right Jim make what you want of it, have your party, and we will see cause i will sure be saying i told you so
Renee,
They are trying to get you to reveal what you know. Do not do it. Let them wonder.
These attacks against you are shameful. They do it to everyone and anyone who has their own point of view.
While the Da is well aware of what is said on the blogs, anyone who makes a complaint to him about this, he has to make out a report.
Do it because this report can be used at a later date if needed.
I too would love to know what info you have. Notice I have never asked. I can wait just like everyone has to wait.
These attacks against you is actually witness tampering. Dewayne and Rob do nothing on the blogs without the CobraKillers blessing.
Look at who these people are and what they do.
You have no worries.
madame said,
im said...
And DA Melnick has just furnished us all his official opinion as to that proof:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that [Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart] were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
Ya right Jim make what you want of it, have your party, and we will see cause i will sure be saying i told you so.
Let me parse that The DA is saying that the statements that RW. GR amd SL "were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death" were false. In other words, the DA is saying that it is true that RW, GR and SL were not responsible for Bryan's death. It seems to me that this is a matter of simple logic.
Yep.
bb said,
this offical declaration saying that none of them committed the murder is no surprise to me.
Actually, the declaration is that none of them is responsible for the murder.
madame said,
And legally speaking, the DA's document did not exonerate anyone. It simply states that the defendants falsely accused these people -- which legally means they did so without any evidence to back up their accusations. Technically, the state could come back tomorrow and file indictments against all three of those mentioned.
That is not true. The DA has said that the defendants claims that GR, SL and RW were "responsible" for the murder of Bryan Kocis were "false." In other words, as a matter of logic, GR, SL and RW ere not "responsible" for the murder. It's not they didn't commit it, it's that they were in no way "responsible."
Everyone, lets make sure and weed out all personal attacks and name calling before hitting that "publish" button.
Attack ideas if you must, but not posters...thanks!
Further more Mrs Martin
Brent Corrigan has no problem with women...
He has a large female fan base..
That was a scurrilous stupid charge on your part which betrayed YOUR bias and OPEN HOSTILITY and CONTEMPT for Sean Lockhart.
If You show Contempt it will be returned!
Renee Martin he just doesn't LIKE YOU!
Small wonder why?
FYI
I was the one who reported your Blogging out the location of two Witnesses who face continual hostile DEATH threats from the Kocis Kabal.
On Behalf of Those who will face trial in the upcoming Federal Case.
And fear the testimony of Sean Lockhart!
Mrs. Martin meet your future Bedmate and compatriot on these Blogs
BB otherwise known as Robert Wagner!
The man who participated in EVERY CRIME committed by Bryan Kocis
Pedophilia and Rape.
Oh and Renee Martin Stay the Fuck off my BLOGS!
bb said,
Dewayne, Reneee does not need a lawyer. She committed no crimes.
Are you a lawyer? How do you know she had committed no crimes?
madame said,
However, the allegation that she was a "business associate" in the illegal prostitution ring being run by Boybstter in Virginia might subject her to criminal prosecution in that jurisdiction.
That would be way before my time. sorry you are mistaken on that one. The illegal prostitution ring was shut down when they went to jail, so how was i running it, and where does anything say i was running the prostitution ring?
As I said, these are only allegations. However, since they are out there, I think it is foolish of you to ignore them.
It's said that a lawyer who decides to represent himself in a legal proceeding has a fool both for the attorney and for the client. The same is true in spades for a layperson such as yourself with no knowledge of the law.
"Are you a lawyer? How do you know she had committed no crimes?"
Yeah. It seems to me, her role in the three-way calls could be construed as Conspiracy to Commit Perjury ("Plan B").
On My Blog I have inserted a Statement on Renee Martin
Find it on the right sidebar
Interesting Reading.
Read Mrs Martin then kindly vacate the premises.
And yes I will continue to file complaints and report you to PSP as I did in July 2007 (your jailhouse conversations)
and your recent SERIOUS Breach of Witness Security.
Yesterday I posted the following:
madame said,
Maybe the part [sic]should wait until all the conversations come out, and the different version of the Le Crique [sic[dinner is put out in writing.
Whose different version?
madame has not responded so I will repeat the question.
There were four participants in the Le Cirque dinner: Grant, Sean, Harlow and Joe. Both Grant's account and Joe/Harlow's account are included in the Affidavit of Probable Cause. Sean, according to Grant's account, had had too much wine to follow the discussion. Whatever.
I still ask madame: what alternative version of the Le Cirque dinner do you have that has not yet been included in the public record?
Prof, I can answer that...it's Harlow's "broken glass" version of the Le Cirque dinner.
It's old news. VERY old. Harlow floated it on his now deleted blog eons ago. It was posted back in the pre-May 15 days, while Harlow and Joe were still roaming free, and trying to falsely implicate others (ie, subject of this post!) for the murder.
According to the Broken Glass story, Harlow and Joe were peacably and innocently eating a fine meal at a posh Vegas restaurant with Brent and Grant. Grant, out of the blue, started asking them to murder Bryan for them!
Joe and Harlow kept saying no, and trying to change the subject. Grant became insistant, such that Harlow became scared...and broke a wine intentionally, in order to furnish an excuse for them to end the dinner early.
Now, you can imagine the reception this got when Harlow first floated this trial balloon on his blog. HOWLS of LAUGHTER would be an understatement! Even the normally staid PC openly ridiculed it, as I recall.
It was such a monumental flop neither Harlow or Joe or any of their online enablers ever attempted to float it again.
It'll undoubtably be brought up by Melnick, however, as part of the "bad act" evidence of them trying to make others look responsible for Bryan's death. In addition to the prison phone calls and letters where Joe discusses the spreading of such lies against Robert, Brent, Grant and others.
"BB otherwise known as Robert Wagner!
The man who participated in EVERY CRIME committed by Bryan Kocis
Pedophilia and Rape."
roflmao. more of your lies.
you on the other hand were caught red handed downloading very young twink bb/cum eating movies as well as very young twinks getting beaten to within inches of their lives. all the things you claim you are against. i hear the unmentionable one is working a post about this very subject where you are concerned.
keep thinking i am Robert Wagner, it will get you nowhere. it changes nothing.
your thinking i was BK got you nowhere and changed nothing :)
sean and his cobrakiller are NOT in the clear of any wrongdoing. nothing you or they can do about that either.
dewayne what was the name of that TM twink rape movie you loved so much that you decided to share it online - copyright violations were commited by you. TM has been informed.
keep throwing stones - they bounce right back.
Dewayne,
Was that because Renee does not like Brent Corrigan?
Are we SURE there was witness intimidation on her part?
Would your feelings be the same for anybody who opposes Brent Corrigan in any fashion?
It was harsh
as I am sure it was meant to be but I am wondering if anyone who opposes BC gets that wrath and again is it justified?
Jim, if Renee is referring to the broken wine glass story, which when I was paying NO real attention to this case even I had heard, then why is she talking about things she is unable to disclose because they have not been made pubiic yet? I'm sure she is well aware that that account of the Le Cirque dinner is old news, so it would be silly of her to call it top secret at this stage of the game. I therefore have to conclude she is referring to something else, although I haven't a clue about what that could possibly be.
Will, who knows what Renee is referring to...and who cares?
Prof was asking what other version of the LC dinner was out there...and I happened to recall it. Is that Renee's so-called secret "bombshell?" LOL, would not surprise me!
Melnick knows...and whatever it is, he's concluded it's bullcrap:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that [Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart] were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death."
And in the final analysis, thats all that matters.
The most that happened at that dinner was hate spread around the table. Big hate, and IMO Grant Roy may have been very vocal in big hate- not asking for murder.
I do not believe Brent Corrigan did anything except sit at the "we hate Bryan Kocis" dinner and maybe get a word or two in edgewise about his hate too.
But this blowout with Renee and people here seemed to start when she mentioned Brent acting like a prima donna at the hearing. I am sure he did and I am sure it was a turn off to just about everybody and I know it is not really important but he did not do much to make himself look good or respectable for that hearing. That too rubbed people the wrong way, IMO.
Renee does not like Brent Corrigan, she is certainly entitled. She came to this blog with that feeling and that was a bad move. Many people here including blog owner [whom I respect deeply] are fiercely "pro" Brent Corrigan and God help those who go against him.
Renee's issue with the dinner IMO is just what I mentioned above- maybe in different words but there is nothing more to it.
Brent Corrigan is by no means an angel, who was at that age???
Please make no mistake I have nothing against BC-
one way or the other- no feelings good or bad-
I once threw out a judgement call on him and his lover, I felt very bad for that and tried to win his underwear auction to make amends.
An apology probably would have sufficed.
BB writes against the DA's express statement on file with the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's Office, "sean and his cobrakiller are NOT in the clear of any wrongdoing. nothing you or they can do about that either."
You apparently didn't get PC's memo. He's got the DA's statement, albeit redacted, but the statement nonetheless. Sean and Grant were cleared. Seems he has a problem with unidentified dire consequences as well.
Blogger V.J. said...
Dewayne,
Was that because Renee does not like Brent Corrigan?
VJ Renee Martin is an un-indicted co conspirator and Accessory after the fact. She actively aided and abetted Joe and Harlow during their fugitive status.
VJ Renee Martin Does not much care for anyone I hear. Everyone I have talked to seems to dislike her intensely. Her every move at the Court house was accompianed by people moving to avoid her.(and rolling of eyes)
She was also isolated compared to the other witness's.
Of course her status is different from the other state witness's.
If she does not "perform" satisfactorily for ADA Melnick she can be charged for her collusion with Joe and Harlow!
The reason she has that $50,000 Bail she don't like to talk about!
I have had to listen to her crap for over a year!
Yes Renee I knew all about your jail house 3 ways with your fav guys Joe and Harlow. I was one of the people who reported you to Cpl Det Leo Hannon.
LAST YEAR!
Are we SURE there was witness intimidation on her part?
Absolutely VJ Renee Martin is a part of the campaign of Witness intimidation against Sean and Grant. There are people in this case who want them Charged with the murder and failing that DO NOT want them to testify.
This includes Michael Kocis and the entire Nest of Vipers
Renee Martin deliberately AND WITH MALICE outed the hotel location of Sean and Grant two state witnesses in a Capitol Murder Trial who have received numerous death threats.(All have been reported in detail)
Renee Martin was complicit and aided and abetted Joe and Harlow and is a Hostile Witness.
Therefore her deliberate attempt to place their lives in danger was immediately reported to the Pennsylvania State Police.
Furthermore in the weeks before the recent hearing a concerted effort at witness intimidation was launched by this Kabal.
"False Accusations" of imminent arrest and prosecution were leveled against Sean and Grant in order to induce them to refuse travel to PA to testify.
I was personally Threatened. (duly reported)
Would your feelings be the same for anybody who opposes Brent Corrigan in any fashion?
It was harsh
as I am sure it was meant to be but I am wondering if anyone who opposes BC gets that wrath and again is it justified?
VJ there is a lot we have kept quiet about at the DA's request but I am not beholden to that.
If the Kocis Kabal wish to make war so be it!
Would Michael Kocis like me to relate HIS Witness intimidation and threats?
A man who is running an illegal criminal enterprise?
A man who is not interested in justice for a murdered son but in keeping his Cash Cow alive! And destroying the one man who can put Robert Wagner in Prison
Would that be Michael because Robert has said he will "spill it all" and smear your son if he is arrested and charged!
VJ I can take criticism and people not liking Brent Corrigan
What I will not tolerate are the monsters who wish to DESTROY him to protect their Child Pornography Empire!
If You show Contempt it will be returned!
Renee Martin he just doesn't LIKE YOU!
Small wonder why?
No wonder why, he is a self righteous little snot and needs to see a shrink. That is it and that is fact how do you like that
DeWayne - As I said before, I'm very wary of getting in the middle between you and Renee. Your feelings about this are crystal clear to everyone, and I am not here to challenge them.
However, I wonder if you could explain the apparent escalation of bad feelings since this posting of yours on the DeWayneinSD blog, when I asked you about Renee's "outing" of the hotel accomodations:
"As for Renee Martin yesterday that may have been just excitement, an inadvertent leak of where the witnesses were staying. (prev threats resulted in a change of hotel from last years Prelim hearing)
"She does not know there have been real death threats in this case and if she is a witness against Joe at trial this involves her safety (as a witness as well)
"I think she understands now and no harm no foul."
Were you just being discreet, or has new information come to light since then?
V.J. said...
Dewayne,
Was that because Renee does not like Brent Corrigan?
Are we SURE there was witness intimidation on her part?
Would your feelings be the same for anybody who opposes Brent Corrigan in any fashion?
It was harsh
as I am sure it was meant to be but I am wondering if anyone who opposes BC gets that wrath and again is it justified?
VJ you are exactly right if you say anything about BC you are in the dog house terminally, there is not witness intimidation, i said it as i saw it , he was a real stinker and he knows it and when he isnt being a stinker he is being a whiner. Hell i dont even let my two year old whine as much as he does, I dont have to like him and i never will, he is a whining showboat that wants attention. HE needs to get over his self and all of his issues with women.
Again, lets see if we can debate without the personal attacks, please, thanks! :-)
And if anyone is wondering what my take is on all this, when it comes to "whining showboats"...well, as another blogger observed in the previous thread:
"As of this post, out of 172 comments made on SOTC, more than half are from Renee."
jim said...
And if anyone is wondering what my take is on all this, when it comes to "whining showboats"...well, as another blogger observed in the previous thread:
"As of this post, out of 172 comments made on SOTC, more than half are from Renee."
Dont whine when you asked for it Jim, now you want to cry about it, get real
Jim--
No problem. Do see to it that BB gets that message as well. :)
BTW Renee, I'm not a message forwarding service. If you want send hate mail to someone, I'm sure you can do it directly without involving me. Thanks!
Renee darling you spin too much.
Sean has never spoken out against women. And your other remark is rather assinine in that Sean is a gay man and other than friendships with them, it goes without saying he would not have issues with women.
Who did you say was rather confrontational at the DA's Office? I will help you remember. It was Grant. As for you encountering any other witnesses, you were sequestered. In Jim's words, you whine much as say nothing of substance.
Not hate mail Jim, just what will be filed against him in the morning. Hope he enjoys bedding down with kentie cause that is where he is going with kentie.
Will the short answer YES
I was being discreet and waiting to see Mrs.Martin apologize for placing two state witnesses she has OVERT HOSTILITY towards in Physical Danger by outing on a Blog their physical location.
I screencapped her comment (and the one about Harlows ph call)and reported her within 15 minutes.
I know she was "cautioned"
Did Mrs.Martin show one bit of contrition?
Did she show one whit of concern she had placed two witnesses who have been repeatedly threatened in danger?
NO She dismissed the concerns with total contempt.
And then she has the unmitigated GALL to complain when Sean shows her OVERT Hostility for being a callous ,careless,Mrs Know it all BUTTINKSI!
Excuse me if Mrs Renee had placed MY LIFE in danger I would raise HOLY HELL about it!
The woman is a co-conspirator and a loose cannon.
Will My Antipathy towards Mrs.Martin goes back over a year when I heard what all she was doing to give material aid and comfort to Joe and Harlow when they were fugitives.
And her continued collusion with Joe and Harlow (after their arrest) up and to the point she was EXPOSED!
And Mrs.Martin don't you DARE Threaten ME! I was already threatened once in the last month and THAT BLEW UP IN YOUR FACE!
The Fact is you are a Criminal co-conspirator and since you have been outed your still playing both sides
You play the DA's game when he is looking your way (Which ain't often sweetums)
And you go right back to conspiring with Joe and Harlow when you thought you could get away with it.
What does Joe have on you Renee what has he got YOU on the hook for?
You sure you turned EVERYTHING over to the DA?
Or did you forward some SHIT to a certain Romanian Webmaster?
"Were you just being discreet, or has new information come to light since then?"
VJ, I think it's abundantly clear now that Renee's outing of Brent's hotel location was motivated by pure malice.
Now now, lets avoid personal attacks, please!
Blogger jim said...
"Were you just being discreet, or has new information come to light since then?"
VJ, I think it's abundantly clear now that Renee's outing of Brent's hotel location was motivated by pure malice.
Hi Jim I would add her actions were Malice Aforethought? ;)
(intention to cause death or to cause serious injury)
I will say goodnight my blogs safely sanitized of toxic criminal rifraf and compatriots of Joe Kerekes.
Comment moderation turned overnight.
My work is done we now know fully who and what Mrs.Renee Martin is.
The Third man Harlow referred too
was a woman...
You notice the DA didn't mention HER
when he cleared Sean,Grant and Robert Wagner of complicity in Bryans murder.
ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18
"Madame said...
Not hate mail Jim, just what will be filed against him in the morning. Hope he enjoys bedding down with kentie cause that is where he is going with kentie."
So, you have police coming to DeWayne's door, to arrest him any day now?
Just like you threatened PC months ago, that police would be showing up at HIS door, because he dared to say the house you were trying to leverage money out of had no equity?
So, are police going to be showing up at BOTH doors now, any minute? Or did you cancel the PC police visit?
Just found this old post from Renee on PC's, thought everyone, including Renee, might find it amusing:
Nothing to do with Sean and Grant and Robert, who the hells cares about them, they didnt do the murder. Ok Clue, Joe and Halrow in jail for murder, robert sean and grant, FREE.
Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:33:00 AM
Yeah, and wait until you see the "private" messages she sent me...you'll all begin to see what she was really up to, all along.
Jim,Will and V.J. as you may have surmised I simply let lose with a years worth of pent up invective against this shrill who EVERYONE has heard about behind the scenes.
Or as Will asked "is this a change in attitude toward Renee?"
NOPE
Somehow this woman who talks INCESSANTLY fails to understand EVERYONE has been talking about her behind her back!
Somethings we have learned.
She has threatened more people than Joe!!!
She was deeply involved with two murderers and she paints herself some kind of hero!
Who I really feel sorry for are the ADA & PSP investigators who had to listen to hour upon hour of Renee Martin and Joe Kerekes drone on in their excited jr.high conspiratorial voices!
As they discussed plans A,B,C, the XYZ affair and Hypothetical persons,scenarios and alibis!
We can only hope Melnick keeps her "witness time" to a minimum after all Renee Martin is really the only thing Joe and Harlows attorneys have to look forward too.
Another thing that came thru loud and clear the last year.
The deep seated antipathy and homophobia Martin has for men in general & Gay men in particular.
So yeah I knew her "Madame persona" was an act and played along.
Knew all along we were dealing with a deeply hostile and disagreeable woman.
No wonder she took to Joe like bee to honey.
It's good to know you wern't fooled either, DeWayne.
"She was deeply involved with two murderers and she paints herself some kind of hero!"
yes, Sean Lockhart is certainly no hero.
and now you lot are attacking the dead mans family, disgusting.
BB, the only reason the Kocis family has been popping up in these threads has been due to Renee bringing them up.
She has been using the Kocis family to support her attacks on Brent. Naturally, people will want to respond to this.
If it were not for Renee insisting on opening the door, I would not have allowed or made comments about the family at all.
That's our BB!
So now Sean is "deeply involved with two murderers," huh? Please do point out the FACTS to back up that statement.
dewayne said,
"Yeah, I knew about her madame persona all along"
jim, did you also believe Renee was not being sincere?
If so -[dewayne & jim]
Why keep it from us?
"Deeply involved" is a subjective term.
I suspect had there been no murder, all contact between Harlow and Joe and Sean and Grant would have terminated after Grant hung the phone up on Joe, after Joe called demanding a blog post.
And their paths would have never crossed again.
Jim,
Many others - those attacking fmaily Kocis have brought up the family many times over the past year.
Put aside the attacks and such for one moment. Their son is DEAD. They get attacked and accused of all kinds of things.
It is wrong, plain and simple. It is a new low.
None of them are satisfied with the muder of Bryan.
What more do they want?
EVIL, all of them.
V.J. said...
If so -[dewayne & jim]
Why keep it from us?
Yeah, good question, V.J.!
I think everyone needs to take a time-out. (I did yesterday) :)
There's accusations being thrown from all sides that simply don't make sense.
"jim, did you also believe Renee was not being sincere?
If so -[dewayne & jim]
Why keep it from us?"
VJ, I can't speak for DeW...but as for me, I got a new post cookin' in the oven...
"There's accusations being thrown from all sides that simply don't make sense."
I'll expand... though I'm too lazy to scroll through 155 comments to find exact quotes.
'Renee is anti-gay'
Makes no sense, if Renee where anti-gay, why then would she be accused (by the same people) of aiding and abetting a gay couple, killing a gay man, because of a gay porn star.
'Sean is anti-women'
Never heard him say he hated, or disliked women. It's obvious that women aren't his sexual choice, but that doesn't mean he hates women. It's also possible that he simply doesn't like Renee... disliking one person doesn't make it mean it's for all.
'Sean, Grant, Robert are exonerated'
Considering none of the three have been charged, tried, found guilty... and then found innocent... it's an inaccurate statement to make.
'Renee talks too much'
I won't disagree there... but she's also not under a gag order, so in reality, she's not breaking any laws in doing so. I also commend Sean and Grant for not talking. But the choice is neither right or wrong for either.
I could go on... but I think you get the hint. While I totally respect Jim, his blog, opinion, etc... I think people have spent way too much time trying to make mountains out of mole-hills.
Oh, and on a final note... I am not a friend/fan of Sean, Grant, Harlow, Joe, or Renee.
Jim said,
VJ, I can't speak for DeW...but as for me, I got a new post cookin' in the oven...
I can't wait!
I've been wondering why Renee was the only witness at the recent hearing who was required to put up bail. It seemed to me that the probable answer was that the ADA didn't trust her.
Given that, it also seems to me to be improbable that the ADA would reveal to her information that was not already public, as she has been claiming.
"'Sean, Grant, Robert are exonerated'
Considering none of the three have been charged, tried, found guilty... and then found innocent... it's an inaccurate statement to make."
Yes, Rob corrected me on that word usage as well.
PC, I know others have had issues with you (cough Elm cough), but I have always found you to be a very refreshing OBJECTIVE voice in all this, and just wanted to thank you for that.
Yep agreed!
PC said...
Oh, and on a final note... I am not a friend/fan of Sean, Grant, Harlow, Joe, or Renee.
Same here. You've probably checked my blogger profile, which explains how I got interested in this affair. I'd never heard of either Cobra Video or "Brent Corrigan" before the initial incident mentioned in my profile. However, its been fascinating to see how this case has developed.
BTW, my first post as "prof", before I had created my profile, was on elm's blog. elm and several others accused me of being DK. I then "outed" myself to elm via email and asked him to acknowledge publicly that I was not DK. This he refused to do, which has not increased my respect for elm.
PC said...
'Renee is anti-gay'
Makes no sense, if Renee where anti-gay, why then would she be accused (by the same people) of aiding and abetting a gay couple, killing a gay man, because of a gay porn star.
PC this comes from private observations from some people who talked to her last year.
She is always saying things "Like YOU Gays" or "Gay men won't come to Harlows blog unless there are dirty pictures on it" its to keep the Gays happy" (i.e. we are sex obsessed)etc it was the tone of contempt.
In my experience when that phrase is used You Gays its a "near Freudian slip" she meant to say "You Fags"
I would say her being mixed up with Joe and Harlow will have more to do with their being Grifters and Con Men.
I stand fully behind both statements
She has Antipathy and hostility to men in general (i.e.A Man hater)
And she has contempt for "The Gays"
Specifically.
Prof the back story there (you being confused for DK)
He impersonated a Cambridge Professor for years even attempted identity theft.
So when you first arrived with your profile many believed you were DK
I really thought Elm knew that theory was discredited.
Prof glad you are commenting. Your take on things is thought provoking.
Add my 2 cents on Prof - he doesn't comment all that often, but when he does I always find it worthwhile. How anybody could mistake him for DK after that intitial confusion is beyond me.
DeWayne said,
Prof the back story there (you being confused for DK)
He impersonated a Cambridge Professor for years even attempted identity theft.
Yes, I did figure this out which is why I "outed" myself to Elm. If I'd known the back story I would have chosen a different screen name.
PC said:
'Sean is anti-women'
Never heard him say he hated, or disliked women. It's obvious that women aren't his sexual choice, but that doesn't mean he hates women. It's also possible that he simply doesn't like Renee... disliking one person doesn't make it mean it's for all.
From my research, I have found that gay men love females and femininity. They feel more comfortable with them.
On the other hand, gay men see "men" as other. WE are always attracted to the opposite. Gay men do not typically see themselves as men.
Gay men try to attain masculinity by asserting what is known as the hyper-masculine (aka the leather crowd).
Jo
Prof, I did recieve your email and I did an IP check as well and everytime you posted and DK posted they came from the same IP address.
Now maybe I was wrong but maybe I am not. DK is notorious for his lies and impersonations. So you can harp on that all you want but that just makes me more suspcious of your motives.
The fact that you lost respect for me matters not because as I see it no one on these blogs has any respect for anyone.
"the way I see it no one on these blogs has any respect for anyone"
I may not go as far as to say "nobody respects anybody"
but you are close.
Blogger V.J. said...
"the way I see it no one on these blogs has any respect for anyone"
I may not go as far as to say "nobody respects anybody"
but you are close.
V.J.
I have always tried to be fair minded and indeed I have talked to people in this case who were on opposing sides.
What I can not abide are people with an agenda of personal destruction.
The people I have exposed are openly and viciously hostile to Sean and were well before the murder of Bryan Kocis.
They are people who wished him dead.
Their Hostility is based on Fear.
Fear of facing Justice for their Evil acts.
You ask me if I have respect for Robert Wagner?
No. The crimes Bryan committed Robert was there every boy, every rape.
The Kocis family publicly supported their son after the 2001 case.
They continue to profit from illegal child pornography.
Renee Martin was in active collusion and conspiracy with two murderers.
We are supposed to respect someone stupid enough to be an Accessory After the fact!
Such people deserve no respect instead they should be condemned.
Elm said,
Prof, I did recieve your email and I did an IP check as well and everytime you posted and DK posted they came from the same IP address.
Elm, at the time you acknowledged that the IP addresses I was using were not the same as DK's. Either you have a poor memory or you're lying.
Another story in The Sword:
http://www.thesword.com/2008/07/caleb-carter-fears-for-life-after-corrigan-encount.html
HA! I see Caleb Carter is still trying to resurrect his career, via publicity stunts like this.
DeW, wasn't there a similar attempt by Caleb, not too long ago? The details were EXACTLY the same, except in the older version an alledged new boyfriend was the villain?
And when did Long Beach Gay Pride occur, does anyone happen to know?
In May I think. Yepp, May 17th - 18th.
http://www.longbeachpride.com/
Back in MAY?!?!?! LOL!
So, it took CC two months to figure out he'd been "threatened." Coincidentally coinciding with the all the publicity surrounding the release of "Another Gay Movie."
I guess he went to the movie premier, saw Brent as a merman, which triggered a Vietnam-like post-traumatic flashback...and he ran home and blogged about it. Yeah, that's the ticket...
Ah, YJCMTSU!
Maybe Caleb has been in hiding fearing for his life since May and had no access to his computer.
See BB, i saved you the trouble!:)
Will G--
Careful. BB will attack you for attacking a Brent Corrigan basher. Start watching for those incoming Molotov Cocktails that Dewayne mentioned.
Specific threats were made to CC by Sean, the CobraKiller, Dewayne and other henchmen.
They were 100% sure I was CC at the time - which was over a year ago now.
"...so we weren't taken aback when he delighted in the fact that Corrigan is still a possible suspect in the Kocis murder trial."
Yeah Caleb is a stellar example of a bitter ole lushy queen. He can't stand seeing Brent at all his fav clubs and screams murderer in his face at every oppurtunity.
It all stems from Grants refusal to put the saggy-stretched marked bloated Caleb of the summer of 2006 in a BCO scene.
Caleb takes only one thing serious in this life
His next Drink
Bottoms up!
"Yeah Caleb is a stellar example of a bitter ole lushy queen."
hmmm. what does that make YOU?
The henchmen thought BB was CC? I'm so confused.
Ancient history, Will!
BB, hon, you posted the entire Sword story without crediting them. Not a good idea. You're welcome.
The unmentionable one has picked up the Caleb Carter story but failed to notice that it took CC two months after the alleged threats to mention them on his blog.
Prof--
Unmentionable cannot overcome his longstanding habit of riping and using others' material. He doesn't read and comprehend a blessed thing. Caleb Carter, in his booze induced funk, isn't any different. A respectable commentator would back off from the story, especially in light of the Luzerne County prosecutor's publicized statement clearing Sean and Grant (discernment and discretion would tell an informed professional that the police had thoroughly investigated and found Sean and Grant not complicit in Kocis' murder)and not use Caleb Carter's story, but not the unnamed blunderkind.
Interesting too is that he outed CC's real first name. Some supporter he is.
In any case, I think it's probably best if we move all unmentionable talk to my other blog.
I've assembled a chronology of postings relevant to the Caleb Carter accusation against Brent Corrigan. Some may find it interesting.
July 10, 2008: Carter posts the following on his blog.
"WHO IS WASHED UP NOW?
"So after Brent Corrigan openly threated my life at Gay Pride in Long Beach. Stating that "Grant didn't want threaten you. But I will. You better watch your fucking back because I will get you." I feel the need to be very open about the case in which he is still a murder suspect..."
July 14, 2008: PC posts "DA's Response to Cuadra's Omnibus Motions," which contains the following paragraph:
"The Defendants have also falsely suggested that other persons were responsible for Bryan Kocis' death. More specifically, the Defendants have discussed laying the blame, on among other people, Robert Wagner, Grant Roy, and Sean Lockhart."
July 15, 2008. Jim reposts PC's item to his blog.
July 15, 2008 7:32 AM. BB comments on Jim's post in part as follows:
"jim, obviously sean and his cobrakiller did not do the actual killing, they were in CA at the time of the murder, the murder they instigated by spewing HATERD.
"this offical declaration saying that none of them committed the murder is no surprise to me."
July 17, 2008 12:18 AM. I replied to the above message several times, most recently at this time as follows:
"bb said,
"'this offical declaration saying that none of them committed the murder is no surprise to me.'
"Actually, the declaration is that none of them is responsible for the murder.
July 17, 2008 10:09AM?. "The Sword" picks up the Caleb Carter accusation. Its story, headlined "Caleb Carter Claims to Fear for Life After Long Beach Corrigan Encounter," includes the following paragraph:
"Hmmm. After watching Caleb Carter on MTV's Parental Control last year, we wanted to throttle him, too. It was on that show that we discovered Carter's penchant for shadenfreude, so we weren't taken aback when he delighted in the fact that Corrigan is still a possible suspect in the Kocis murder trial."
July 18, 2008 3:06 PM. will g reports "The Sword" story here and provides a link to it.
July 18, 2008 5:41PM. bb posts the entire Sword story on his blog, "A murder is announced," without attribution.
bb provides his own headline: "'still a possible suspect' makes THREATS!"
He also provides his own emphasis to some of the words in the story, to wit:
"the FACT that Corrigan is still a possible suspect in the Kocis murder trial."
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