Sunday, July 13, 2008

Brent's Take On The Hearing

Or rather, non-hearing. This an excerpt from his blog post from yesterday:

"...And then, lets not forget the Bryan Kocis murder case. Grant and I have navigated a living nightmare for more than a year now, doing everything we can to show the authorities and (indirectly) his family that we want to do what is right. Forget any press is good press. When the world and your industry insists on implicating you as a murder suspect, nothing good can come of that. Grant and I put everything on the line to voluntarily take part in a two day wire tap that ultimately provided the Pennsylvania authorities with evidence that will make their case against the murder suspects.

Sunday, July 6th Grant and I voluntarily traveled to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania to sit on the stand and declare we consented to the wire tap. Along with more than 10 other witnesses, we sat delayed for two days while the attorneys of the accused fumbled their way through the proceedings that ultimately rescheduled these pertinent pretrial hearings. Grant and I basically wasted 3 days in PA and then lost another to traveling cross-country. We endured a tampering and hostile witness (Madam) that went as far as to declare to the online world which hotel we were being discreetly and safely tucked away at. To top it all off, while waiting outside the court room Grant and I experienced harassment and name calling and hostility from the family of the deceased.

We had to hide from the media who had cameras trained on the holding rooms the authorities put us in (they moved us to a safer location to prevent from any more harrassment). I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face. At one point, I was so frustrated with not even being allowed the luxury of relieving my bladder in peace that I flipped the cameras off. I forgot to explain to them that in my world that can be considered a gesture of endearment. Oops! I never watched to news to see if they aired it.

Thankfully Grant and I have each other. This murder case has strained our relationship exponentially to the point where what we once had together hardly even exists anymore. I love him. He’s the most important person in my life. We’re a team. We only have each other. Our relationship is truly one of a kind. Very sadly, things have been so strained that we cannot carry on a traditional relationship. There was a time where who we were to each other and how we felt about each other could be clearly defined. However, after navigating this case, building two companies from scratch, being screwed around and fucked over royally by Lee Bergeron- we aren’t what we used to be. We have both grown and become very different people, but our love and the fact that we only have each other has somehow managed to thrive and maintain itself. We will always be together in one way or another. My one wish is that Grant and I can work through things better so that some of this unwarranted stress and tension might relieve me...."

...

"...I’m not sad or depressed. I’m completely overwhelmed. The pretrial hit me hard and all of the momentum I had recovered before flying out to Pennsylvania has dissipated. I’m trying to figure out where to go from here. My self esteem appears to be suffering. I’m deflated and tired. As pathetic as it sounds . . . I haven’t had the energy or the time to work out in almost two months. That fact alone has ruined my sense of confidence (and probably severely affected my bodily chemistry). I had a respiratory infection that plagued me for two months. It has taken me this long to figure out it’s probably just really bad allergies I’ve developed as a result of growing older in a region I’m not originally from.

Why am I listing all this? Therapy I guess. Maybe I’m just trying to sort it all out through my fingertips. Some of my distance here may be a result of the fact that I have not felt like I could continue to be as honest about my life as I have in the past.

I wish I could find the energy and organization to move forward with everything that I should be using to springboard me into to what I’ve always wanted. The trouble now, it seems, is that I feel so deflated that I’m not so convinced I want all of what I was so originally determined to have."
Plus these comments added by Grant:

I LOVE YOU BABE! …and no matter what, “Just Keep on Truckin!”

>Grant

...

Comment by Grant — On July 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
and

Of course Woody, I was there! Lol… No Seriously, we were always no more than a phone call away from Pennsylvania’s finest, including senior detectives with the Luzerne County District Attorneys Office, Pennsylvania State Police and Dallas Township.

The Common Wealth of Pennsylvania have always been most professional, gracious and accommodating!

Comment by Grant — On July 11th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Update: Renee responds with her own witness room recollections in these here comments. The Reader's Digest version (thus far):
1. Sean alledgedly made a heterophobic comment about women (?!) during a meeting of hearing witnesses, and was upset when told "you should try one before you knock it." Renee reported the alledged incident to the DAs;

2. Sean alledgedly complained of cold pizza;

3. Sean alledgedly said he was cold in the courthouse, and needed a sweater;

4. In Renee's view, Sean played to the cameras rather than avoided them; and

5. Grant and Sean were alledgedly seen "hanging out with" with fellow witness Andrew Shunk (aka Mason Banks, former Boybatter model and potential Confidential Informant #1) in a bookstore on the public square; Renee also felt compelled to report this alledged gathering of three people within earshot of each other to the DAs.
Update 2: Blogger NG weighs in, in back to back posts on his own blog. One amusing observation: "As of this post, out of 172 comments made on SOTC, more than half are from Renee."

316 comments:

1 – 200 of 316   Newer›   Newest»
Renee said...

We endured a tampering and hostile witness (Madam) that went as far as to declare to the online world which hotel we were being discreetly and safely tucked away at. To top it all off, while waiting outside the court room Grant and I experienced harassment and name calling and hostility from the family of the deceased.


No one harassed Sean, he opened up his mouth and got caught in it, and then didnt like the response if that is harassment then he should of kept his mouth shut in the first place, ask jackie at the luzerne county jail she will sure tell you sean opened his mouth and then didnt like the response and then whined to grant and grant told him to be quiet and no one would say anything to him.

As for the issues with the kocis family , the reason they had something to say was becuase they believe that sean and grant had something to do with this crime.
Needless to say none of us knows whether this is true or not, so they may be right they may be wrong we will find out at trial.

Maybe if sean doesnt want people to say anything to him he shouldnt open his mouth, as for his hotel, oh well, who cares, is he hiding from Bryan? thought he was dead? Who is he hiding from Joe? Who the hell cares, and if he is so worried about it why was he hanging out with Grant and Andrew at the book store on the square, witness's arent suppose to be hanging out together and they were sure doing it behind Luzernes finest backs. Dont worry boys I made sure they knew about it, you would be suprised who was walking around that day on the square.

Renee said...

We had to hide from the media who had cameras trained on the holding rooms the authorities put us in (they moved us to a safer location to prevent from any more harrassment). I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face

YOu didnt hide from any camera you posed for it, tell the truth, why lie, look at the video clips on els blog. For someone trying to hide from them you walked right into them, you didnt have to hang out one the ground floor where the cameras where you chose to do it. You could of been anyplace else in the court house I know , I stayed away from the basement and the cameras, why dont you try it next time. But i understand makes for good media to have you on tv to sell those movies

will g said...

Just one observation, not all that relevant to the case: I like and respect both of them, but Brent's tone here sounds an awful lot like he did in that April 1 post that he later said was just an April Fools joke. It really makes me wonder about the backtracking he did when he declared that to be just a prank.

Just remarking on the similarity, I'm not a regular reader of his blog so I could be off base. Good luck to them both.

I will not get into his comment about Madame. . .

BB said...

"...doing everything we can to show the authorities and (indirectly) his family that we want to do what is right." Sean Lockhart July 2008.

"I wanted him to suffer a very public humiliation; since that was the route HE chose, in addition to lose everything he had, including Cobra Video!" Grant 'CobraKiller' Roy May 2007.

Show the family what they want to do is right? LOL. Yeah sure.

BB said...

awe, poor sean did not get the reception he expected.

he is pathetic, still doing his woe is me crap. glad the kocis family see right through him.

jim said...

"No one harassed Sean, he opened up his mouth and got caught in it, and then didnt like the response if that is harassment then he should of kept his mouth shut in the first place, ask jackie at the luzerne county jail she will sure tell you sean opened his mouth and then didnt like the response and then whined to grant and grant told him to be quiet and no one would say anything to him."

What is this referring to? Who is "jackie?"

will g said...

And Madame, who is Andrew?

jim said...

Yeah, Andrew who?

Does not seem to be one of the 12 called in for the hearing...

jim said...

FYI, there are 3 possible Andrews on the larger "385" witness list:

Special Agent Andrew Pappas - DEA San Diego Field Division

Andrew Jordan

Andrew Shunk

Anonymous said...

There were witnesses on the list that were not reported ask PC

He knows which Andrew it was

Anonymous said...

will said,
"I will not get into his comment about madame"

No need, madame put that situation in its place.

elmysterio said...

Andrews picture is on my blog. you just have to find it. I don't want to say who he is but once you find his picture you will understand.

Thane said...

The location of witnesses in a murder trial is a confidential matter (especially the two who have been threatened by the Kocis Cabal). YOU Madame Renee knew what you were doing was wrong, but as with everything else, you just don't give a damn, even when you have been directed not to.

Then you don't care that you were reported through channels for outing confidential witness information (lodging locations) and discussing Harlow's phone calls.

When you add what was up with some of the other witnesses, it is not bought that you are a friendly witness helping to prosecute. It's an act.

You are Hostile to the core. To the prosecution, to the defense, to everyone. You were described as one Royal &$@(*.

elmysterio said...

Oh yeah Jim the witness list that you are referring to was far from complete.

Thane said...

Madame Renee you are hardly a church mouse. Your big mouth is your worst enemy.

Thane said...

Renee how would you know whether Sean was harassed? You were tucked away in the DA's office suite by design.

PC said...

"There were witnesses on the list that were not reported ask PC

He knows which Andrew it was
"

Andrew Shunk

PC said...

"Oh yeah Jim the witness list that you are referring to was far from complete."

The only one's not listed were Andrew Shunk (which to my eyes looks like "Mason Banks", though I could be wrong), 3 agents with the DEA, and 1 agent with NCIS.

Renee said...

Thane said...
The location of witnesses in a murder trial is a confidential matter (especially the two who have been threatened by the Kocis Cabal). YOU Madame Renee knew what you were doing was wrong, but as with everything else, you just don't give a damn, even when you have been directed not to.

Then you don't care that you were reported through channels for outing confidential witness information (lodging locations) and discussing Harlow's phone calls.

When you add what was up with some of the other witnesses, it is not bought that you are a friendly witness helping to prosecute. It's an act.

You are Hostile to the core. To the prosecution, to the defense, to everyone. You were described as one Royal &$@(*.


Thane ,

Let me put it politely to you go screw yourself, first off you werent there, you werent the one that complained about your cold pizza and whined you were cold all the time. And god knows everyone knows about that and the rest of how difficult Sean was, As for outing him , hell i outed myself, and if you dont like it well tuff, you would be as sick as i am of this, hell i dont want to hear from any of them anymore, and if i was so hostile why was i there and ready to testify, hell they can make me go but they cant make me testify, get real, anyone knows this, what are they gonna do put me in jail cause i wont testify, the problem is that that scam with the lawyers was divulge on a phone call prior to the hearing, yes i was annoyed, hell you would of been when you knew what the defense was gonna pull, the detectives knew about it and so did melnick and no one did a damn thing.

As for your hostile hell i will show you hostile i dont have an issue telling all of it, what you are seeing on pc's blog is not even the tip of the iceberg,

As for sean why would he be so scared of the Kocis family if he did nothing? They are really nice people grieving over the death of there son, (no matter what he did in life he didnt deserve to die). Why should they keep suffering, hell I would not want that for anyone that i know, I will tell it all now and at the trial, that is the only way the kocis family will get any closure and be able to move on.

And Thane you may not be damon but you sure sound an awful lot like Rob. Its amazing how rob is missing from the picture and you show up, and the fact you wont post of pc's blog, could it be he knows something?

Before you go slinging shit about who is hostile , better tell Sean to start telling the whole story, before I start telling it.

As for Who jackie is she is the lady at the jail that handles the phone in luzerne county, she was talking to the detective from san diego (dont recall his name) when brent wanted to open his mouth and get into some one elses conversation and sling comments about women, well cant help the boy doesnt like women that is his issue, but he got what he deserved and if being harassed is being told to try a woman before you knock it, then he should learn to keep his mouth shut. If you think that I am gonna cower down to Sean , Grant, Joe or Harlow you are all nuts. i will tell it all on all of them and end this bullshit feel sorry for me syndrome they all have going on.

As for how would i know he was harassed cause they put us all in the same room for a meeting. Didnt ask to go was told to go, and we all went. Not much to that one, didnt take a rocket scientist to figure out putting everyone in the same room would cause shit.

like i said before i dont have much to say about grant or sean at this time, cause i dont know if it is true or not and i will not even try to come to a conclusion on that one, but seems like some of what was told to me was correct about Sean and Grant, my opinion is forming quickly on this one now. If Sean wants to sling shit , hell go for , let the games begin.... I think it would be less enjoyable for him then me.

And thane as for my big mouth oh well, no one told me not to say antyhing, so hell i will tell it all, dont make me research who you are thane that could become very interesting and when i research i find out the whole thing.... I would suggest you get a grip

Renee said...

Thane and you wanna be self why dont you take yourself over to pc's blog he is dying for you to visit him, could it be becuase you arent thane.... PC sure told you to come over yesterday and you avoided it and when every where but there.

Renee said...

oh and as for Sean and grant i will be sure to contact the detective and ask jackie to contact him when i call her on monday about this little harassment scam sean has going on, this should be funny, thanks for the screen shot, I guess he wont beable to get out of this one, and he claims harassment.

BB said...

"To top it all off, while waiting outside the court room Grant and I experienced harassment and name calling and hostility from the family of the deceased."

what the hell did he expect? coz of him their son is dead.

BB said...

Renee can do and say what she wants - no matter howe much it clearly pisses off some people.

Rants and attacks will not shut her up.

She is a credible witness, pisses off some people too.

I for one thank her for doing her duty in telling the truth.

Give em hell Renee.

Renee said...

Ok i have looked at the second video clip on els blog several times especially where sean and grant are walking down the hallway, there does not seem to be any camera shyness here. If he was so camera shy cause of this whole thing, why is he not doing what most camera shy people do? blocking view of the camera with his hand or anything, seems to me he wanted the media attention. Or atleast it looks that way, and if he didnt then he should of stayed away from the only floor that media is allowed to take pictures on, as for that is the only place that they could be put to wait on the hearing, that is crap , the day before they sat in the rotunda all day on the third floor and didnt see any media attention, So whats up with the feel sorry for me , the media caught me? More like I wanted the camera time....

BB said...

"No one harassed Sean, he opened up his mouth and got caught in it,.."

nothing new with that. so many proven lies told by Sean Lockhart and his CobraKiller.

Renee said...

Has anyone thought of why the kocis family would of said the things they did? Do they have reason to believe the things they do? They talk to the police all the time , they are the victims family. What are they being told that would cause such hostility toward Sean and Grant.

As Sean specifically writes on his blog.

To top it all off, while waiting outside the court room Grant and I experienced harassment and name calling and hostility from the family of the deceased.

Why would the victims family do this if they were just trying to help as Sean states. Seems weird to me... They were acutally very cordial to me. What does the victim's family know that we dont know?

BB said...

"Renee how would you know whether Sean was harassed?"

even i can answer that. he is a liar. easy huh.

Renee said...

Gosh Jim are we being sensitive to the comments about Sean. Seems to be some impartiality going on around here. Some one asks a question and I answer it and you censor it...

BB said...

"I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face"

would make a change from where they usually are :)

Renee said...

BB said:

BB said...
"Renee how would you know whether Sean was harassed?"

even i can answer that. he is a liar. easy huh.


i am coming very quickly to that conclusion, I thought joe and harlow were always lying but i see some of what they say has some truth to it, maybe the rest of it does.

Renee said...

BB said...
"I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face"

would make a change from where they usually are :)


BB go to El's blog and look at the second video clip, he is in no way avoiding the camera he is walking right into it and doing the hair toss. Looks like wanted media coverage to me. I was told when i go there to stay away from the basement floor cause they have cameras there. Now is Sean and Grant are walking around on the basement floor then they opened the door to the media attention.

BB said...

"if being harassed is being told to try a woman before you knock it, then he should learn to keep his mouth shut."

ROFLMAO.

jim said...

"Some one asks a question and I answer it and you censor it..."

As you can see, I was merely asleep. :-)

This is an interesting yet highly confusing conversation. Let's see if we can cut away the confusion this morning.

I gather from what you said earlier there was a meeting in the courthouse of the 12 witnesses? And there was some sort of incident there? What happened, exactly?

Renee said...

BB said...
"I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face"

would make a change from where they usually are :)


sorry BB forgot to ask, Arent the cameras usually on the other end. The better side according to some

BB said...

"What does the victim's family know that we dont know?"

The obvious. Think about it. Put everything you know into perspective. Forget you know the players.

Their son was brutally murdered because of Sean and his CobraKillers actions.

Renee said...

jim said...
"Some one asks a question and I answer it and you censor it..."

As you can see, I was merely asleep. :-)

This is an interesting yet highly confusing conversation. Let's see if we can cut away the confusion this morning.

I gather from what you said earlier there was a meeting in the courthouse of the 12 witnesses? And there was some sort of incident there? What happened, exactly?


Here is what happened , they put everyone in the same room, before the da gets in there, I was sitting with Jackie the luzerne county jail lady and she was talking to the agent from sandiego, she says something he makes a funny back and sean interjects some bashing women comment so in return he got, you should try one before you knock it, then he goes running to grant about did you hear what she said, and grant told him to shut up then if he didnt like it, Sean whines about the whole thing, then gets pissed cause i told the detective during the meeting what happened. Told the Da daugherty also what happened. So he opens his mouth in a conversation where no one was talking to him or about him and then wants to cry harassment... please , should of stayed out of someone elses converstation and then he wouldnt be crying, lets not talk about the cold pizza crying incident and the i am cold i need a sweater incident that everyone knows about, and thane says he was told i was a real bitch , hell no just tired of the crap, Sean is no better then anyone else testifying there and he wants to be treated like he is the king or porn, well he aint he is just another person in this whole saga.

jim said...

"The only one's not listed were Andrew Shunk (which to my eyes looks like "Mason Banks", though I could be wrong), 3 agents with the DEA, and 1 agent with NCIS."

OK. I recall from past references "Mason Banks" is a former Boybatter model.

Is it fair to assume he is Police Informant #1?

Renee said...

jim said...
"The only one's not listed were Andrew Shunk (which to my eyes looks like "Mason Banks", though I could be wrong), 3 agents with the DEA, and 1 agent with NCIS."

OK. I recall from past references "Mason Banks" is a former Boybatter model.

Is it fair to assume he is Police Informant #1?


I think you are right on this one Jim, I do know he was a boybatter model, just dont know about hte informant status

Renee said...

jim said...
"Some one asks a question and I answer it and you censor it..."

As you can see, I was merely asleep. :-)


Sorry about that Jim, I will apologize for the censoring comment..... Hope your jammies are dry!

LOL

BB said...

"We endured a tampering and hostile witness (Madam) that went as far as to declare to the online world which hotel we were being discreetly and safely tucked away at."

LOL.
Sean and his CobraKiller posted documents with Bryan's address and other personal/private details.

They sought out Harlow online.

They recommended Harlow to go work for Bryan.

Harlow gets charged (with Joe) with murdering of Bryan.

The fact is, Sean screams about intimidation and threats, he is unable to provide back-up of this. Nobody has been arrested for this.

Seans cohorts however constantly attack and make threats to anyone who disagree with them.

It is all smoke, mirrors and bullshit.

BB said...

Renee, Sean knows no shame. His porn work is evidence of that.

He is a pathalogical liar.

I call him out on those lies. It is why I get attacked so much by the likes of thane/rob/dewayne. They are friends of Sean. Sean and his CobraKiller put these people up to the attacks. I call it out. They go nuts.

All this over a nasty hooker (Sean). Unreal.

They all said I made up the fact Sean is an escort - has sex for money. I got lots of attacks for that one. A year later Sean admitted it only coz I found proof and posted it.

These are sick twisted people who live in the twisted world of gay porn. Its very nasty.

will g said...

BB said...

what the hell did he expect? coz of him their son is dead.

BB, unless you mean that Sean said, "Harlow and Joe would you go kill Bryan for me?" I think that's an absurd and slanderous statement. No matter WHAT he said to them about his contract or any other thing that you always call "lies" -- and maybe they were -- he CANNOT be held responsible for what the two lunatics then took it upon themselves to do. If you are accusing Sean of masterminding the murder, that's another matter, and why don't you just say that? A nice juicy lawsuit may follow.

jim said...

" So he opens his mouth in a conversation where no one was talking to him or about him and then wants to cry harassment... "

Well, actually no, if you look at Brent's blog post, he never mentions this incident. That's why I have to ask you about it, cause you mention it in passing, and everyone here is ???

He refers to "harrassment" twice, neither in connection with you: The cameras, and some incident with a Kocis family member.

He did call you a "hostile and tampering" witness, though. But not a harassing one.

Renee said...

BB said:

It is all smoke, mirrors and bullshit.

I am now inclined to believe this after what he did at the hearing and has said in his blog post since the hearing.. And that is a whole lot of smoke , mirrors and bullshit...

This is probably the reason the Kocis family had something to say to Sean and Grant, I just wonder what they know that we dont know to have such hostility towards two people that in seans words:

Grant and I put everything on the line to voluntarily take part in a two day wire tap that ultimately provided the Pennsylvania authorities with evidence that will make their case against the murder suspects.


Then why so much hostility from the victim's family ?

And Thane, Sean, Grant whichever one you are. You know more then you should so either you were at the court house or you are not such a clean little mouse either, if you were told to shut up and keep it shut up that is your problem . I for one have never been told not to say anything about this case. Maybe you should do as instructed and keep your trap shut.

BB said...

crying over cold pizza? needs a sweater?

a man is dead coz of his whining. unreal.

BB said...

will, i meant what i said. sean and his cobrakiller have bryan's blood on their hands. i'll be happy to swear to it in any court.

Renee said...

Jim said:

He did call you a "hostile and tampering" witness, though. But not a harassing one.

And how whould he know this? how would he know if i was hostile or not? and how would he know if i was tampering with something, that The Da approved of. it is amazing that when he wears a wire tap , it is his civic duty and he did everyone a favor, hell i got joe and harlow to admit all kinds of shit about the crime, but i was hostile and tampering. Yah tampering with the approval of the DA , if they didnt want me to talk to joe and harlow anymore they would of cut it off months ago, hell they still want the phone conversations, they condone them....

So what civic duty did sean do , did he find about all the goodies purchased at walmart including the knife? did he get joe to admit that there were only two people in the house , for sure without doubt? and all the rest of the stuff that is soon to come out, Hell no he didn't. Atleast when i figured out they were guilty I went the full limit to make sure they got prosecuted. Hell i even asked them questions knowing the calls were recorded... And they sure answered them....

jim said...

"...if you were told to shut up and keep it shut up that is your problem . I for one have never been told not to say anything about this case."

Which is another thing I find rather odd right about now. Why would one key witness be gagged, and the other not? Make no sense that I can see...

Renee said...

BB said...
crying over cold pizza? needs a sweater?

a man is dead coz of his whining. unreal.


Yah and thane states he was told that i was the real bitch, yah right ... As for his comment about the defense attorneys whey would i want to talk to them.... I have nothing to say that can help Joe or Harlow and the only way thane would of know about that was if he was at the court house the last day, cause harlows mitigator was looking for me and asking everyone... so thane you gave yourself away, Thane , Sean , Grant who ever you are you gave it away

will g said...

BB said...

Sean and his CobraKiller put these people up to the attacks. I call it out. They go nuts.

BB, obviously I hadn't seen that when I wrote my previous comment. I think that's the first time I've seen you be so explicit in your accusation.

I just have one question for you:

How in the hell would you know that?

Make that two questions:

Then why haven't they been arrested?

BB said...

"I just wonder what they know that we dont know..."

We will find out one day I am sure.

Renee said...

jim said...
"...if you were told to shut up and keep it shut up that is your problem . I for one have never been told not to say anything about this case."

Which is another thing I find rather odd right about now. Why would one key witness be gagged, and the other not? Make no sense that I can see...


Jim have Pc check the record they were never gagged , only the attorneys were gagged. They were never given a court order saying they had a gag order , if they did we all know PC would of posted it. So where is it in writing that they are under a gag order from PPO. They arent, they never were, they chose to take it that way and tell everyone that

Renee said...

And if sean is under this gag order why does he post what he wants on his blog when he wants, know of a few times he has posted somethings that arent public knowledge. So make me wonder there huh?

Renee said...

Will G said:

I just have one question for you:

How in the hell would you know that?

Make that two questions:

Then why haven't they been arrested?

Well that goes with a converstaion over heard at the court house, goes like this

Have you read grant his rights yet?

No

Does he have an attorney yet?

yes, one he uses in california.


Dont know what this was about and they walked off after that part , so you tell me sounds like at sometime grant will be read his rights, if not more...

BB said...

"Grant and I put everything on the line to voluntarily take part in a two day wire tap that ultimately provided the Pennsylvania authorities with evidence that will make their case against the murder suspects."

They are both so involved they had little to no chocie after the raging war they both raged against Bryan online.

Keep in mind the DA has not ruled out further charges against others. Also the DA has NOT cleared Sean and his CobraKiller of any involvement.

brynawel said...

A man is dead because of two greedy idiotic Virginians. Get real, bb!

jim said...

"Jim have Pc check the record they were never gagged , only the attorneys were gagged."

Yeah, thats what I thought.

And I guess no one ever advised you informally not to discuss the case?

I do recall Brent saying on his blog in the past he can't talk about this or that because he did not want to jeopardize the trial in PA. Which I think got magnified in readers' minds to a "gag order."

Renee said...

And I guess no one ever advised you informally not to discuss the case?

they never said a word to me, the only thing they asked me was not to show anyone the transcripts from the phone calls, and i have not shown them to anyone , not even gluttony and they are sitting on our kitchen counter. So that was there only request and I have done as requested and not shown the huge book of phone converstaions to anyone.

Renee said...

Keep in mind the DA has not ruled out further charges against others. Also the DA has NOT cleared Sean and his CobraKiller of any involvement.


Agreed BB after the converstaion i heard at the court house.

BB said...

brynawel

the original greed came from sean and his cobrakiller. they set up shop together coz sean did not like bryan making all the money.

that stunt backfired.

BB said...

Renee, lets not forget how much they used Cedric to suit their own needs. Through him they spread so many lies. The CobraKillers email that elm revealed shows that.

will g said...

Just one more observation, then I'll stop picking on BB:

BB. I am a layman when it comes to this case, you and all the other bloggers know a hell of a lot more about it than I do.

But as a layman, I feel confident in saying that unless you are present at a conversation, there is no way you can ever be certain about what was said there. I therefore find your certainty about what transpired between Sean, Grant, Harlow, and Joe, to be not credible.

Renee said...

bb said:

that stunt backfired.

i agree with you.

BB said...

will re read what i wrote. put it in context with all said in that post.

brynawel said...

Following your logic, bb, the original greed came from Bryan himself. Making money even (or in Bryan's case: especially) by involving under-age persons.

PC said...

"Jim have Pc check the record they were never gagged , only the attorneys were gagged."

That would be correct. The only gag order is on the defense attorneys and the prosecution. No witnesses have been issued a gag.

PC said...

"Is it fair to assume he is Police Informant #1?"

Based upon the testimony, I would think so.

jim said...

"BB said...
brynawel

the original greed came from sean and his cobrakiller. they set up shop together coz sean did not like bryan making all the money."

Uh, by definition there, the original greed is Bryan's, since he was originally "making all the money."

And since Bryan did not want to stop making all the money, he applies for copyrights illegally, files frivilous lawsuits, sends hired goons cross-country to disrupt public appreances, conspires with an LSG partner to sabotage their own partnership, and wages a nonstop online propaganda war in order to destroy them.

Bryan's "stunt" backfire. He is now dead. Partly, I think, because he made himself publically into such a unsympathetic potential murder victim that Harlow and Joe thought they could get away with this with relative ease (see Harlow's "backburner" comment on the BBTs).

So, Bryan is dead not due to Sean And Grant's "greed" (ie, desire to pursue the American Dream...they did not want to go on being Bryan's cash cow and working for peanuts, imagine that!) but due to Bryan's own ridiculous anticompetitive greed.

And you want to know what else I think? If Bryan's relatives are too blind to realize that, and want to shift blame from Bryan for his own death (where, besides H&J, it truly belongs)...well, whatever helps them through the grieving process, I guess.

brynawel said...

pc said...
That would be correct. The only gag order is on the defense attorneys and the prosecution. No witnesses have been issued a gag.

But except for one witness all witnesses are wise enough to keep shtoom about the case.

BB said...

Bryan owned his buisness. Sean and his CobraKiller wanted the customers to themselves. They both screwed Bryan over to do this.

This is where the lies and threats against Bryan began.

Sean went back for more... more information on how to run a porn based buisness. He spelled it out in his email to his Cobrakiller.

Their plan was set in motion.

Renee said...

But except for one witness all witnesses are wise enough to keep shtoom about the case.

Yah well guilty is guilty! I dont really care if you like it or not, they are guilty and i can voice my opinion if i want to and i have not discussed anything that is not or has not been made public knowledge, but i can if you want ?

brynawel said...

... but i can if you want ?

Oh do it and play into the hands of the defense even more than you already did.
Over on PC's you said you didn't need to talk to an attorney ... you better should have done that.

brynawel said...

Bryan owned his buisness.

Bryan utilized minors! Don't call it business, call it perversion.

jim said...

"BB said...
Bryan owned his buisness."

Yeah. Bryan was the plantation owner, and Brent was the sharecropper.

The sharecropper decides to flee the plantation, in search for a better life. The plantation owner sics the dogs on him, to either force him back onto the plantation...or to destroy him. Either or.

And you are calling the sharecropper the greedy one in this situation.

This analogy seems to sum up the situation nicely, IMO. You can perhaps see why I (and most others) are having difficulty relating to this rather ususual point of view.

BB said...

Sean moved away. Sean went back with a plan. How is this Bryan's doing?

Sean did not have to go back period. Yet he did.

brynawel said...

Why he went back is described in the "Sirens Tales" I think, that he went back with a plan is an allegation on your part.

jim said...

"BB said...
Sean moved away. Sean went back with a plan. How is this Bryan's doing?

Sean did not have to go back period. Yet he did."

Presumably, like you said, to get a better perspective on how things worked on the other side of the camera.

Seems like a perfectly sensable, non-sinister plan to me. Perfectly legal in every way. All employers need to accept the basic fact of life that in our free capitalist society, employees are free to eventually become competitors with their employers...using the skills learned at the hands of their ex-employers.

We live in a free capitalist society, not a Stalinist one.

That was Bryan's problem issue. He seemed to think he was living in North Korea or something.

jim said...

Actually Bryn, if I recall "Siren's Tale" cuts off at exactly the point where Brent begins to describe his rationale for returning to Cobra.

But yeah, if you read between the lines, and add in what he has said elsewhere, it was undoubtably to gain business experience experience at the other end of the camera.

Which like I just said, is a perfectly legal and even laudible motivation.

This sort of entrepreneurship goes on in this country all the time. Our economy would collapse without it.

Renee said...

brynawel said...
... but i can if you want ?

Oh do it and play into the hands of the defense even more than you already did.
Over on PC's you said you didn't need to talk to an attorney ... you better should have done that.


What am i playing into with the defense , you need to get real, all the phone calls were taped, there is no dispute they cant fight it and the calls all state at the beginning they can be recorded or monitored, so they recorded them whose fault is that ?

i have no need or want or desire to talk to an attorney i did not do anything wrong. In our society we can support issues that we believe in without criminal conviction. So i believed in there innocense, when there stories changed so did my beliefs, I am allowed to do this without an attorney, i dont need an attorney to tell me that i can have my own opinion and i am allowed to say what i think, and that is exactly what i will do, just as i did when i thought they were innocent, I wil do it now that i think they are guilty.

As for talking to an attorney , that is fine, but that is for people that have things to hide or think they committed a criminal act. I did neither! As for the three way phone calls there was nothing criminal about that, hell do you think i am the first person on earth to three way a phone call betweeen two defendants. Not likely. But due to these phone calls the state has an airtight case. Why would you bitch about phone calls that seal the conviction of joe and harlow? Most would be rather happy over that.

Renee said...

Jim, I know Sean and Grant are your friends, do you have any idea why the family would of called them names and had hostility towards them? This just seems kinda odd. I am suprised the Kocis family was not thanking them for the blacks beach tapes and the other tapes.

This really shocks me.

brynawel said...

Ok, you clearly didn't get my point. I wasn't talking about you being supportive of a cause you believed in. I am also not talking about the existence of the tapes and their origin. And nobody accused you of a crime.
What I was talking about is that you are a witness who better shuts up about everything until after the trial. Everything you say and write will be used by the defense against you. You showing some kind of temper (and that is what the written words conveyed, it doesn't matter if you really lost your temper) as soon someone is questioning you did the prosecution a disservice. What do you think will the defense do when you are taking the stand?

An attorney just would have told you "shut up".

Renee said...

Did everyone go to lunch?

brynawel said...

Yes, Jim. I wasn't sure were exactly I read an explanation. There are a lot of sources and I am not at home right now so I can't retrieve my server. So right now I can't cite a source. Sorry.

jim said...

"Madame said...
Jim, I know Sean and Grant are your friends,..."

No. We could be standing all next to each other in line at the supermarket, and they would not recognize me. :-)

"...do you have any idea why the family would of called them names and had hostility towards them? This just seems kinda odd. I am suprised the Kocis family was not thanking them for the blacks beach tapes and the other tapes.

This really shocks me."

Doesn't really shock me. It is natural to want to stick up for a relative, especially a deceased one.

Like I said before, this is their way of coping with the painful fact that evil Bryan in his life wrought in his life had a good deal to do with the reason for his death.

Transferring this blame from Bryan to Sean and Grant (who did no wrong) is part of this coping mechanism.

Renee said...

brynawel said...
Ok, you clearly didn't get my point. I wasn't talking about you being supportive of a cause you believed in. I am also not talking about the existence of the tapes and their origin. And nobody accused you of a crime.
What I was talking about is that you are a witness who better shuts up about everything until after the trial. Everything you say and write will be used by the defense against you. You showing some kind of temper (and that is what the written words conveyed, it doesn't matter if you really lost your temper) as soon someone is questioning you did the prosecution a disservice. What do you think will the defense do when you are taking the stand?

An attorney just would have told you "shut up".


Per the District Attorney blogs are not admissable in court, never have been and until it is brought up in a court hearing and decided they wont be allowed, blogs are personal opinion not fact, so i have no worries about the blogs and there being admissable in court, the only thing i wanted was for the tapes to be entered into court and as we see they have been .

When the DA tells me to shut up I will be more than glad to accomodate him but in the mean time, i am allowed to have my opinions on this like everyone else.

Gluttony said...

Lets move on to something else, we can only polish a turd so much. Is there anything new we can talk about today.

Jim we need some of your funny sarcasim today because I think I have constipation setiing in today.
Me and jim are tight, we even shop at the same store and dress alike today.

Thane said...

Madame Renee,

Bail bonding was imposed on you for a reason. That bail is not revoked, nor will it be. You were segregated for a reason from the other witnesses. Fact is fact.

The blogger known as Brynawel has you pegged correctly.

Renee said...

You showing some kind of temper (and that is what the written words conveyed, it doesn't matter if you really lost your temper) as soon someone is questioning you did the prosecution a disservice.

I have not at anytime lost my temper and you would be amazed at how i mostly laugh off most of the shit posted on all the blogs, if you interpert that as lost temper, well that is in the eyes of the interperter, as i said we are all allowed our opinions and each one of us views things in different ways, you see it that way , i do not, and i am sure the DA did not see it as any kind of hostility or otherwise, they know i just want this over with. Harlow and Joe's attorney can use any kind of tactic they want, but the truth is the truth and it is on those phone calls and they cant change it now or ever. So they can say what they want and try to make people think other wise but the problem is it is not he said she said , it is in writing and it is fact, hard to dispute.....

Renee said...

jim said:

Transferring this blame from Bryan to Sean and Grant (who did no wrong) is part of this coping mechanism.

If this is the case and that is what they are doing, I dont think none of us knows how they are thinking at this point, but they for sure are looking for someone to blame for the murder. And they have two already to blame for it.

I just dont see it the way you do, i would think that no matter what bryan did or sean did before the tapes would be a wash and that the kocis family would be greatful that sean and grant did what they did, but this does not seem to be the case, that is what makes me wonder? You would think that even if they werent estatic with them over the tapes they would atleast be cordial due to the fact they went out on a limb to do that, not knowing if Joe or Harlow would do something stupid to them, or harm them.

I just really wonder what they are thinking about that whole situation and if Sean and Grant are innocent, they really do need to make a mends with them and tell them thank you for helping, like i said earlier there must be something more to it.

Renee said...

Thane said...
Madame Renee,

Bail bonding was imposed on you for a reason. That bail is not revoked, nor will it be. You were segregated for a reason from the other witnesses. Fact is fact.

The blogger known as Brynawel has you pegged correctly.


No thane segregated by choice, I have no want need or desire to hang out with any of them and at my request I was put some place else. FAct is fact as you say, as for the bond , who the hell knows whats up with that, but when that issue is resloved you can start eating the crow you well deserve and make sure you fully understand you will eat the whole crow and i will make sure of that one..... you and all the others when it is put out there i may just get on the line with jim and have a chat about all you people who believe all that you read,

Just like joe says i am his business partner to a bunch of inmates and he lies about everything else but that, you people sure confuse me first joe is a liar then he tells the truth then he is a liar then he tells the truth , there is not a damn thing that comes out of joes mouth that is the truth..... So pick and choose what you want to say is the truth from joe it will all come out and when it does start eating in the closet with babs and you will be sentenced to 50 gallons of babs finest chocolate milk.

Renee said...

And dont you people have anything better to do then grill on that bond issue, that will be brought up at the next hearing. You make me laugh you dwell and dwell on something that you want to believe is the truth and when the truth hits you in the face and you find out you were wrong you will say i never said that......

Get real, i could not give one rats ass about that bond or the paper it is wrote on, tell them to come and get me, who cares. I will be there to testify bond or no bond. They figured that out when i flew up there in June of this year and gave them statements , took myself to the airport with my kid and went there willingly, maybe i should ask for an escort next time, it will make you feel better.


Ok calling all defense attorneys and all District attorneys , I am being told by some ignorant bloggers that you should have to come and get me. So come and get me. i want a chariot ride to the airport next time and the quick check through security or i am not coming, oh and i want a direct flight no stops and a steak dinner on the plane , other wise i refuse to come.

Get real. When i am told when the next hearing is i will be there, what you all forget was that bond was only issued on the hearing for July 8-9 and the trial, it was specific , i dont have to go to the next hearing unless they take me back in front of ppo and he gives me the supeona, they know this, and they also know i will show up! So maybe i will skip the next hearing just to prove my point! Maybe testify by phone tell them that the bloggers think this and I figured i would do this, see what happens.

Renee said...

thane:

They can revoke the bond and come and get your ass if you dont show up for the hearings you were supeoned for, thus far i was supeoned for two hearings the july and the trial hearings, no other hearings, guess they better get PPO to serve me again.... if they were worried about me showing up I would of been in front of PPO before i left there to get a supeona for the next hearing in three weeks or an open supeona, I thus far do not have anykind of open supeona and Jim if you would like to print the actual copies of the supeona i will email them to you they are specific to date......

Thane said...

BB you have an undue concern for where Sean resides. And what he does. That's obsessive and an indicator of sociopathic predisposition. This is why you have gravitated to Renee because she seemingly plays into your spin about Sean and Grant. Yes, the Kocis Cabal. To borrow a Jim parallel: Sean and Grant, prosecution witnesses, no suspicion attached.

Robert Wagner wanted Sean to come back and live in Pennsylvania to be closer at hand for monitoring, etc. Wagner argued with the deceased about this. Then, of course, Mr. Wagner has problems with authority.

brynawel said...

"... i am allowed to have my opinions on this like everyone else."

No on forbid you to have an opinion. But everybody else posting on the blogs are not witnesses. Jim not, BB not, PC not, me not, Rob not, even your husband not (as far as I know), BUT you are. Common sense should tell you to stay quiet until after the trail. But I am repeating.
AND: you should go back and re-read some of your comments. Then you will realize you voiced so much more than just your opinion.

Thane said...

The blogger who presented the definition of a material witness was spot on with the meaning. Your biggest problem is that you try to retract statements you make and the variance in the changes is telling and duly recorded.

Thane said...

The bail bond stands.

Renee said...

Thane said...
The blogger who presented the definition of a material witness was spot on with the meaning. Your biggest problem is that you try to retract statements you make and the variance in the changes is telling and duly recorded.


Never retracted shit and never changed any statement , so blow it out your ass..

Renee said...

brynawel said...
"... i am allowed to have my opinions on this like everyone else."

No on forbid you to have an opinion. But everybody else posting on the blogs are not witnesses. Jim not, BB not, PC not, me not, Rob not, even your husband not (as far as I know), BUT you are. Common sense should tell you to stay quiet until after the trail. But I am repeating.
AND: you should go back and re-read some of your comments. Then you will realize you voiced so much more than just your opinion.


Nothing more than as released by the DA , hell i know alot more that i have not said, as for gluttony he got his supeona and he still cracks on joe and harlow as hard as he can....

So is he not allowed to have an opinion either.... Michael melnick put the information out there, so it is open and free game once it is released.. When he releases more i will have more to say about how dumb joe and harlow are, and since you are so good at blowing hot air, why dont you come and be my attorney? I sure need someone liek you that can blow alot of hot air.

Renee said...

thane when do stop pretending to be sean, grant or rob, hell atleast i post and everyone knows who i am , most of you want to hide and dont want anyone to know who you are... hell i could of done the same thing and posted and hid from it, why bother, it isnt worth the trouble. Joe and harlow should of kept there mouths shut and i would not be a witness against them, if you are innocent you dont run your mouth.... they did and now they will get what is coming to them.... Death sentence for unjustly and cruely killing bryan kocis..

jim said...

100 :-)

Renee said...

Thane said...
The bail bond stands.


And we can all shit too. So what does that have to do with anything?

Renee said...

congrats jim, want to post some supeonas have a shit load of them if you want to post them.

jim said...

"Per the District Attorney blogs are not admissable in court,..."

Are you sure about that? Because I don't see why they wouldn't be, if they contained relevant evidence...

Why would a blog be any different from, say, a letter? Or a recorded transcript?

Any sifting between fact and opinion can be argued by the lawyers, and decided by a jury. Just as in other forms of evidence.

brynawel said...

So is he not allowed to have an opinion either....

Do I mumble or do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

When he releases more i will have more to say about how dumb joe and harlow are, ...

You absolutely don't get it. Amazing.

and since you are so good at blowing hot air, why dont you come and be my attorney? I sure need someone liek you that can blow alot of hot air.


Lost temper.
q.e.d.

Thane said...

We should be like you Madame? Isn't your given name Renee Martin. Madame is a blogging allias.

On another blog you said I was unmentionable, on this one Sean, or Grant, or Rob. You are terribly hypocritical and fickle. Odd. No posts today, here by Sean, by Grant, or by Rob. Throwing out a smoke screen Renee? That smoke seems to be rolling back on you.

Thane said...

Blog statements are usable in court proceedings.

Renee said...

Jim said...
"Per the District Attorney blogs are not admissable in court,..."

Are you sure about that? Because I don't see why they wouldn't be, if they contained relevant evidence...

Why would a blog be any different from, say, a letter? Or a recorded transcript?

Any sifting between fact and opinion can be argued by the lawyers, and decided by a jury. Just as in other forms of evidence.

Jim , i complained the first time i talked to them about all the blogs and there reply was that they are not admissable in court, they are mostly hearsay, there is nothing but speculation and hearsay on the blogs and what people make up. I was told this by Mr. Melnick and the detective. That there would not be any information from any blog allowed in the court room. They cant even use Joe and Harlows blogs against them except for what they put in letters in writing and sent to me to post. The blog posts that they put up are admissable if they have a letter stating to post this on my blog, that is why they had to have the handwriting analysis, to prove all those letters that i had were from them and some of them i had never read, when i was in the DA's office this last time, i read some letters that they sent to me that i had never even seen before because i never opened them. I was shocked at what was in them. About 50% of the mail i gave to them was unopened mail, when i figured out what was going on, i stopped opening them and put them in a two inch binder and kept all of them. A hostile witness does not keep evidence to incriminate. If i was hostile i would of disposed of all of those letters. I did not I kept them and saved every last one of them for the police, over half unopened. the police did with them what the wanted. I just couldnt open them up and see what was in them so i left that to the police. They have since picked up several other packages of letters that i have found when going through things, if i was not cooperating i could of thrown the rest of them away and the police would of never known about them, no i gave them to the police to make sure if there was anything in them that incriminated them they could use it.

It all boils down to one thing Jim, the truth is the truth no matter how you try to cover it up or lie about it, it will eventually come out, that is why i am not concerned about this bond issue that everyone wants to make a big deal out of, the truth will come out and alot of people will be eating alot of crow, i have some great screen shots to throw back up in there faces..... I will get such a good laugh out of this, you just dont know, I was there and i would not be making such a big deal out of it, if it were the way they are saying, i would eat crow and say yes you are right, but they arent, i am hoping PC can get the transcript of that hearing before the next hearing and post it, then we will see who gets the last laugh on that one. the only one thing i was uncooperative about was paying 1100.00 for a ticket back in april, why should i have paid for it and waited on them to send me a check back, hell luzerne county is almost bankrupt over this, hell no i wasnt waiting on no refund from them. If they want me to come , they can pay for the plane ticket it is that simple.

Thane said...

Your credibility since you asked.

Renee said...

brynawel said...
So is he not allowed to have an opinion either....

Do I mumble or do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

When he releases more i will have more to say about how dumb joe and harlow are, ...

You absolutely don't get it. Amazing.

and since you are so good at blowing hot air, why dont you come and be my attorney? I sure need someone liek you that can blow alot of hot air.


Lost temper.
q.e.d.


No you have lost your temper in sheer fustration, you want me to comply with what you want, and i will not, so you say i have a reading comprehension ok, fine i can have that if you want, i can also be deaf, dumb and stupid if you want. It sure doesnt matter to me. But i still will not comply to your wishes......

Renee said...

jim the pizza was not court house pizza and he wasnt cold in the court house he was in a building across the street from the court house. Just to clarify.

jim said...

"Madame said...
jim the pizza was not court house pizza and he wasnt cold in the court house he was in a building across the street from the court house. Just to clarify."

OK duly noted...

Renee said...

Thane said...
We should be like you Madame? Isn't your given name Renee Martin. Madame is a blogging allias.

On another blog you said I was unmentionable, on this one Sean, or Grant, or Rob. You are terribly hypocritical and fickle. Odd. No posts today, here by Sean, by Grant, or by Rob. Throwing out a smoke screen Renee? That smoke seems to be rolling back on you.


Thane screw you, i dont hide my identity everyone knows who i am what the fuck are you stupid? As for sean , grant or Rob, you are as bad as joe with the alter egos. You are who you are and we all know it , so rob grow up and get off the alter ego thing before you end up sitting right next to joe

Renee said...

Thane said...
Blog statements are usable in court proceedings


SHOW ME CASE LAW!

Geoff Harvard said...

Jim, lest we forget, who was the seller of record in the infamous eBay chinchilla auction, the full-on scheme to defraud from which this blog takes its name?

jim said...

Hmmm, here's an article with a contrary opinion:

"Attorney Karl Knudsen says blogs are open for anyone and could be damaging...

...Knudsen says information on blogs can be used in court, like letters and phone calls, especially since it's easy to prove on whose computer the blogs were created."

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=triangle&id=3747760

The story deals, interestingly enough, with the use of blogs as evidence in a murder case.

Thane said...

Sean and Grant haven't been read the Miranda Warnings and won't be. This story was floated (and how considerate to have mentioned PC) prior to the docket for the evidentiary hearings.

You PC's appointment secretary Renee?

Renee said...

This is why you have gravitated to Renee because she seemingly plays into your spin about Sean and Grant.

No thane you are wrong , i have not gravitated to anything, i leave my opinion on whether sean or grant had anything to do with this open until i know more... What i know so far would say yes they did, but seeings the source I want more. i will not believe what jOe and harlow say. So you can say all you want about me siding with anyone , that is not the fact, I know both Joe and Harlow lie out there asses, that is why i am not taking what i was told as gods truth. Everyone has there reasons for implicating someone else, but are they true, I dont know, I will have to wait and see like the rest, I just know that what a saw at the court house and what sean wrote about the kocis family makes me wonder? what really happened at that dinner and whether they did do something illigeal, but do i know for sure, hell no i dont , joe lies way to much to believe any of us, but i would honestly think the kocis family would be grateful to sean and grant for what they did, not treat them the way they did, sean and grant alledidly went out of their way , and scared of joe and harlow to do those tapes for the police, that is why i find what happened with the kocis family wierd, why would they not be happy that sean and grant got joe and harlow on tape saying what they did. Why would they not be grateful that sean and grant helped the states case and helped them get the warrant to arrest them? Like i said i am reserving my opinion on whether grant or sean had anything to do with this until i hear or read at the trial what went on. maybe they know something we dont, i know it is hard for you to believe but they might know something we dont know and that is why they acted the way they did,

As for at that hearing i had no hostility toward sean or grant until sean wanted to interject into a conversation that was not his to interject into and then wanted to get upset about what was said to him. I harbor no ill feelings towards them or anyone else testifying against joe and harlow I acutally commend them for doing so , knowing that if joe or harlow ever got out , that you might be on the get rid of list... If sean or grant has misconceptions that they have in their head about me that is fine. They are more then welcome to have them. Just like sean wanted support when bryan was after him well i felt at one time that i needed to support joe and harlow until they gave me reason to believe other wise.

Please dont act like you are displaying something we all dont know , we all know what my name is and I really dont care.... The madame thing was a joke and if you cant see if for what it is get a sense of humor will ya. Other than that why dont you try and piss off!

Renee said...

Jim which case? do you have a link for it

Thane said...

Jim, the view you present on the admissabilty of blog statements in court proceedings would be the operating and prevailing one.

Renee was kept away from other witnesses. Her contact was minimal with them at best. Her characterizations of what others said or not is entirely her own.

Something easily verified, has Sean ever written or been quoted as saying anything, anywhere, at anytime against any woman in particular, or all women in general? The answer would be no. I do know that Jim enjoys checking such things out.

Renee said...

You PC's appointment secretary Renee?

If you want maybe i should check with PC first if you dont mind.. I will copy and paste your request to his blog and see if he responds, why are you so afraid to go to pc's blog thane, he might tell who you are? he might out you as one of robs alter egos, damn you have has many mental issues as joe

Renee said...

Thane said...
Sean and Grant haven't been read the Miranda Warnings and won't be


thane i will take that bet , how much do you want to wager on it?

jim said...

It's a murder case in Berkeley...I'm not sure if there are any "clickable links" to it or not.

I think more to the point, though...I've been trying to google any rule of law that says blogs flat out cannot be used as evidence...and I'm coming up blank.

brynawel said...

No you have lost your temper in sheer fustration, you want me to comply with what you want, ...

You got the impression I want you to comply with me? Oh sorry for that irritation! I have too much fun with your comments, no way do I want you to comply with me.

All I said was you did the prosecution a disservice with your voicing. You turned it around and want it to read as "they want to forbid me my opinion". You are pretty much self-centered. I am looking forward to your cross-examination.

It may or may not be that the blogs aren't admissible. What you told the defense with your comments is how they can get at you. Since you are testifying to an important part of the evidence, your commenting on certain topics can turn out to be problematic. I got it, you don't see that. But don't tell me one more time that all you want is a conviction.

And now: Go on please ... :-)

Renee said...

Renee was kept away from other witnesses. Her contact was minimal with them at best. Her characterizations of what others said or not is entirely her own.

Something easily verified, has Sean ever written or been quoted as saying anything, anywhere, at anytime against any woman in particular, or all women in general? The answer would be no. I do know that Jim enjoys checking such things out.

Bullshit , seans comment was over heard by the lady from the jail and the investigator from san diego, so blow it out your ass.

As for being kept away from witness;s that was by choice, I do not have any want need or desire to hang out with any of them. So get a grip, and if that was the case why was i roaming the halls of the court house, main hub , melnicks office, other then that roaming the court house, sitting at the coffee shop on the ground floor and sitting on the third floor with the lady from the jail, you seem to have a large imagination and you seem to want to run with it, that is fine you do that and have fun being joes cell mate... You have severe issues like him and I dont have nor the want or desire to sit her and argue with an asshole like you, if you want to state fact like jim that is fine, if if aint fact and it aint on paper then stuff it, you dont have shit and you will be eating crow.... LOL

So as for you beat it! dont have time to argue with you there are more fun things to do on a sunday afternoon....

jim said...

"...but i would honestly think the kocis family would be grateful to sean and grant for what they did, not treat them the way they did, sean and grant alledidly went out of their way , and scared of joe and harlow to do those tapes for the police, that is why i find what happened with the kocis family wierd, why would they not be happy that sean and grant got joe and harlow on tape saying what they did."

I think the part of this you are missing is the pre-murder history.

If you knew the full history, of Bryan filming Brent underage, of Bryan lying to the industry about the incident, trying to cover it up, of Bryan threatening Brent with death if he ever went public with his true age as part of this cover up, of Brent revealing his age anyways...and Bryan going balls out on every front to destroy Brent in retaliation.

The destruction of Brent and Grant became an Ahab-like obsession with Bryan. And like Ahab, the obsession with Brent killed him in the end.

I can see the family blaming the object of the obsession, rather than placing the blame where it really belongs: On the obsessor.

DeWayne In San Diego said...

Fun Thread somehow I had a feeling this one would "take off"

now time for a nappy its a Sunny beautiful day in Sun Diego!

Sorry no comments I am under a gag order

I find it so liberating ;)

Oh Jim you may or may not be aware of the Harbor Seal controversy at La Jollas Children's cove.

It seems an Activist for the seals was threatened by a deepsea diver on the activists My Space page. He said and I quote" I encourage all in the diving community to take revenge against *****"

He was charged in Federal Court(San Diego) of making a threat and intimidation.

The My Space page was used as evidence.

To answer your question anything you say on a Blog can and will be used against Anyone in a criminal case.

Fully admissible.

and the My space Blogger is lookin at a year in the Federal prison.

Renee said...

I want a conviction ,does that make your day!

As for the defense , good luck is all i can say, there is no defense...

Renee said...

Jim not trying to be dense but no matter what happened prior to the murder between sean and bryan, the family should be thanking sean for his help, he didnt have to help them in any way and especially being afraid of joe and harlow. If that is there issue is what happened in the past with sean and bryan they need to get over it and understand bryan caused that issue and fed it and hung on to it. They cant blame sean if he had nothing to do with the murder no matter what issues he and bryan had prior.

If sean didnt have anything to do with this and he helps to convict joe and harlow then the kocis family really should aplogize to him. He doesnt deserve that in any way.

But like i said we dont know why the kocis family did this, what you just said may or may not be the reason , none of us knows what or why they are thinking the way they do.

It just surprises me cause they really were very nice to me, and they know i supported joe and harlow for a long time. They did not say anything ill or nasty in anyway.

Only time will tell on this one. But if the old history with bryan is the issue they need to get over that, and not blame sean.

Renee said...

i will be more then happy to concede on the issue of blogs if someone would just show me one court case that has been prosecuted that they used blog material? And i am only asking for one case , that has been tried and blog evidence was used to convict.

Thank you

Renee said...

dewayne glad to hear that you are having such a great sunny afternoon in san diego. It is quiet nice out here in fort worth also. The temperature is slightly high but otherwise a wonderful day.

brynawel said...

... there is no defense...

They just have to depict you as unreliable. They will find the stuff to do so in the comment sections of the blogs. All the blogs. I explicitly don't exclude that on blog of DeWayne.

Renee said...

yah, yah yah were is the case law! show me and i will concede. Until then forget it!

The defense can show anything they want. the tapes tell it all....in there own words not mine... How is the defense gonna make a mockery of joe telling on himself and harlow agreeing/ They cant ! It was in there own words. So more power to them, spend some more time on the blogs and not on your case at hand., if the blogs are admissable then you all just became witness's so get ready for your supeonas, especailly the blog owners. This i can hardly believe, you are making your selves all witness's in this case. I guess the state of pa will spend another 100k flying in all the bloggers for the trial....

jim said...

Yeah, that be my main worry too, Bryn. Stuff you post on blogs and forums being used to impeach your credibility, should you be called as a live witness.

I can't fathom a reason why this sort of impeachment evidence would be kept out, just because it was written on a self-described "blog."

But then, this may not matter so much as to Renee, because like she says, much of what she knows is also present in unimpeachable transcriptions.

All Renee has to do on the stand, really, is say "Yep, that's my voice on tape! Talking to da boys..." and then, the transcripts take over.

Renee said...

thank you jim, i dont need to say another word, they did that all on the tapes, what more could the da want but recorded phone conversations , there is no disputing that your client called, i even gave them a copy of the phone bills i have to cross reference with the jail calls, there is no way out of the phone calls, I do not have to testify to anything but receiving there mail and the phone calls, one is on recording and the other is in there writing.

Thane said...

Jim's got the case law you asked for.

You seem to forget that Dewayne settled the question over on his moderated blog the other night when PC cast me as unmentionable rather than answer a question.

Geoff Harvard said...
"Jim, lest we forget, who was the seller of record in the infamous eBay chinchilla auction, the full-on scheme to defraud from which this blog takes its name?" Geoff are you hinting that seller has an ethics issue?

Renee said...

"Jim, lest we forget, who was the seller of record in the infamous eBay chinchilla auction, the full-on scheme to defraud from which this blog takes its name?" Geoff are you hinting that seller has an ethics issue?


ah the seller of the chinchilla coat would of been rosalee kerekes, i just listed it for her cause she did not have a computer at the time , i guess that was criminal too. bloe it out your ass.... you would only hope yhat people would go to this extent to help you.... do i detect some jealousy?

Thane said...

Jim wrote, "The destruction of Brent and Grant became an Ahab-like obsession with Bryan. And like Ahab, the obsession with Brent killed him in the end.

I can see the family blaming the object of the obsession, rather than placing the blame where it really belongs: On the obsessor."

Well presented.

Renee said...

what most of you dont understand is that i have no issue with telling what i did and didnt do, I am not gonna lie about it cause it is not worth lying about. I dont have anything to hide, that is why i signed a permission slip for the police to access my email. There is nothing to hide from , so let them do there job.

For some reason you all get pissed when i tell it on sean and grant and you are just gleefully happy to hear it about joe and harlow. That is sick if sean and grant had something to do with this then they need to be in jail also if they didnt then the police should file a statement stating they are not under any suspicion and cleared of any charges. You are just way to much. as long as no one goes after the precious one sean you can all feed this sickness but let someone say anything bad about sean and you all jump on a band wagon, Well screw off, if he is guilty he needs to go to jail, if grant is guilty he needs to go, conspiring to commit murder is as bad as murdering yourself, so all players should go down, stop trying to protect sean and let the boy tell the truth, if he is innocent anything then that will come out. Stop trying to cover and protect him he has done a pretty good job up until now to cover his ass he doesnt need any of you doing it for him.

Everyone wants to see joe and harlow hang for this crime well what if they had help or conspired with others should they all not go to jail. (we are specifically talking about the murder) why do you want to cover up for what you call your hottie porn star if he is guilty he needs to be with the other two, if he isnt then he needs to have his name cleared in assocation with this. You all sit here and say i should shut up , well maybe he out to try it also, maybe he should nt be putting his life story on the blog and all the harassing , witness tampering shit he puts on there. Dont justify what the golden boy does and then sit here and spew shit at me.... Sean and Grant were showing for the cameras and if you dont see you are fools, they didnt have to go where the cameras are that is a big hallway, but as sean said they chased him... ya right sure they did, they are allowed limited access in the court house, they didnt chase anyone anywhere... So why dont all of you stop the bullshit and tell the fucking truth!

Renee said...

for your information: not pissed off just sick of you all trying to cover for grant and seans ass, there has been no confirmation either way on that, they have not been cleared if they were there would be public info on it and pc has not posted it.

So lets just not cover for seans ass anymore and let him do that for himself

Thane said...

Blogs are "wire" transmissions and retrievable. They are used just like any other evidence that can be obtained.

Renee said...

FYI:

"This information that can be put on computers and may have been put online can lead investigators in directions and help them find witnesses or other evidence that they could introduce in court," he said.

clearly states could help lead investigators in directions to help them find witnesses or other evidence that they could use in court.

There is nothing listed here about the blogs being used as evidence.

DeWayne In San Diego said...

madame here is the story from UnionTribune Friday

Man who threatened activist sentenced

Case was linked to recording of divers

By Onell R. Soto
STAFF WRITER

July 8, 2008

FEDERAL COURT – A man who e-mailed a threat against an activist at the La Jolla Children's Pool was ordered yesterday to undergo a year of anger-management counseling and to stay away from the beach where harbor seals gather.

Kent Trego, 54, of La Jolla pleaded guilty in April to threatening the Animal Protection and Rescue League activist who videotaped two scuba divers entering the water at the pool in September, scattering about 18 of 50 seals.

Federal Judge Roger Benitez sentenced Trego to five years of probation, including six months of house arrest with a GPS monitoring.

After the activist told federal agents about the incident, the divers were ticketed for violating the federal Marine Mammal Protection Act.

Trego didn't enter the water the day of the videotaping, but in January he wrote an e-mail to the league saying “revenge will be taken out” on the activist, who would be “dealt with very harshly.”

He was charged with threatening a federal witness.

Trego's attorney, Mark Adams, said his client apologized and would stay away from the Children's Pool and the controversy surrounding it.

Trego, who is trained in marine biology, has spoken out against the rookery at the Children's Pool.

Since the 1980s, harbor seals have taken over the protected beach, delighting tourists and animal lovers, while at the same time fouling the water.

People who want the beach restored for human use have taken their cause to court, and a judge has ordered city officials to clean it up.

Trego spent 4½ months in jail awaiting sentencing.

Onell Soto: (619) 593-4958; onell.soto@uniontrib.com

Just a postscript the email was posted on the activist My Space both the email AND his My Space Blog was entered into evidence.

The lesson here is a Federal DA WILL charge somone for statements made on a blog or an email if you threaten a Federal Witness.

State DA's are a little lax it seems ;)

jim said...

"So lets just not cover for seans ass anymore and let him do that for himself."

LOL, easier said than done. Years of fighting this war in the blog trenches have made Brent fans a tad trigger happy. As you may have noticed. :-)

Harlow and Joe, catching up on this blog war after they discovered Brent, recognized this incredibly loyal fan base...and potential to profit immensely from it. Hence the "gay porn turf war" motive for this crime.

jim said...

Yeah, but if you read down a bit further, you see the part I quoted earlier, where they talk about using blog statements directly as evidence in a case:

"...Knudsen says information on blogs can be used in court, like letters and phone calls, especially since it's easy to prove on whose computer the blogs were created."

jim said...

"Trego, who is trained in marine biology, has spoken out against the rookery at the Children's Pool.

Since the 1980s, harbor seals have taken over the protected beach, delighting tourists and animal lovers, while at the same time fouling the water."

The Seal Poop Pool sounds like a better name, IMO...

Thane said...

Renee wrote this: "And Thane, Sean, Grant whichever one you are. You know more then you should so either you were at the court house or you are not such a clean little mouse either." Your words, "You know more than you should so . . . you were at the court house," get to the core. This acknowledges that your version has flaws.

Bring on PC. He won't be much help to you.

Renee said...

Ok dewayne i see your point but look at the key words here:

A man who e-mailed a threat

this was not a blog this was an email that was a direct threat, hell that is the shit that kentie does. This is not a blog or anything to do with a blog being used this is an email transmission.

Renee said...

Harlow and Joe, catching up on this blog war after they discovered Brent, recognized this incredibly loyal fan base...and potential to profit immensely from it. Hence the "gay porn turf war" motive for this crime.

Agreed, but this does not clear him. this just makes the motive more plain.

DeWayne In San Diego said...

Correct Jim and I know they used an Anarchist Blog in a court case here last year which resulted in a conviction.

When you come right down to it Miranda means ANYTHING you say can be used against you in a court of law.

Don't matter if you say it,write with a quill pen or use Blogger or My Space.

If its your words it can and will be used against you.


FYI Jim there is an online Sealverse set of Blogs for and against check it out! ;)

Renee said...

"...Knudsen says information on blogs can be used in court, like letters and phone calls, especially since it's easy to prove on whose computer the blogs were created."

Jim just show me where is was used in this case to convict, i will then concede. But the problem is is was not used to convict , as stated earlier they use this to trace witness's , and as such you are all witness's now.......LOL

so none of you should be blogging because you all made your self witness's in this case

Renee said...

somone for statements made on a blog or an email

please show me a blog, this specifically states a threatening email. this i can understand. You are trying to compare emails to threaten someone to a blog of personal opinion and wanna be facts they arent the same

Geoff Harvard said...

"ah the seller of the chinchilla coat would of been rosalee kerekes, i just listed it for her cause she did not have a computer at the time , i guess that was criminal too. bloe it out your ass.... you would only hope yhat people would go to this extent to help you.... do i detect some jealousy?"

So you are saying you listed an item for sale on eBay that you did not own and did not intend to acquire. That would be fraud. You listed it not once, but twice, and you persisted throughout October, 2007 in making false representations about the item and insulting eBayers who questioned the item's authenticity. Sounds like a scheme to defraud to me, and a possible basis on which to impeach you as a witness, regardless of the veracity of your representations now.

Thane said...

Renee wrote, "if they were (cleared) there would be public info on it and pc has not posted it."

PC is not the official source for anyone being cleared or otherwise in this murder case. That is the responsibility of the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's Office after appropriate orders and documents have been filed. The Luzerne County District Attorney's Office and the legal system make that determination. Not any outside third party. This includes, but is not limited to, PC or BB.

Thane said...

Renee wrote, "please show me a blog, this specifically states a threatening email."

You are parsing meaning. It is but an example email, IM, texting, post/blog material just like letters, notes, maps, diagrams, etc. It's evidence and Dewayne and Jim are right, that evidence will be used.

jim said...

OK, here is one blog (The Volokh Conspiracy) that has actually tracked the number of times it has been cited in the Westlaw JLR Database:

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_01_27-2008_02_02.shtml#1201760612

Thane said...

Digital evidence or electronic evidence is any probative (open to direct and cross examination: information stored or transmitted in digital form that a party to a court case may use at trial.

The trial courts have allowed the use of e-mails, digital photographs, ATM transaction logs, word processing documents, instant message histories, files saved from accounting programs, spreadsheets, internet browser histories, databases, the contents of computer memory, computer backups, computer printouts, Global Positioning System tracks, logs from a hotel’s electronic door locks, and digital video or audio files.

You seem to have been misinformed Renee. Read on.

Courts in the United States have applied the Federal Rules of Evidence to digital evidence in the same way as more traditional documents, a foundation for its admissability must be laid. For example, in December of 2006, strict new rules were enacted within the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure requiring the preservation and disclosure of electronically stored evidence.


Renee asks for a citation of precedent: Courts have since held "computer data compilations… should be treated as any other record." US v. Vela, 673 F.2d 86, 90 (5th Cir. 1982). Additionally,
the Federal Rules of Evidence at 1001(3) states "if data are stored in a computer…, any printout or other output readable by sight, shown to reflect the data accurately, is an ‘original.’"

Lastly, trial courts almost never bar printouts under the Best Evidence Rule. Because Renee asked, in Aguimatang v. California State Lottery, the court gave near per se treatment to the admissibility of digital evidence stating "the computer printout does not violate the best evidence rule, because a computer printout is considered an ‘original.’" 234 Cal. App. 3d 769, 798.

Thane said...

Was that the specific information you were looking for Jim regarding electronically and/or digitally transmitted data?

will g said...

If Madame were the one on trial here, I could see this issue of blogs to be more relevant. But I don't see it as being even relevant as impeachment evidence against her, since all she is likely to be doing is, as she said, authenticating tapes and letters. They will speak for themselves.

jim said...

Whatever blogs are. So yeah, "electronically and/or digitally transmitted data" I suppose.

jim said...

Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:

1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.

2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.

3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.

So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).

Thane said...

Will,

Were that merely the case some of us would be enjoying a pleasant summer's day.

BB said...

Rob er Thane get over yourself, I'll share any information I want with anyone I want period.

What others make of any information I share is up to them.

You made direct threats, you stalked and you impersonated a federal officer on the blogs.

Deal with your own shit before throwing it at others. It does you no favours.

BB said...

Jim: where is the evidence that Bryan made a threat to kill Sean?

BB said...

nee, they can say what they want, it will not change the truth. Why they are so hell bent on placing blame for all their errors and lies on to evereyone else is beyond me. More fool them.

will g said...

Thane, I'm just curious, could you paint a scenario where any of Madame's postings in threads would be relevant to her testimony? I can't think of one.

Renee said...

Thane said...
Renee wrote, "if they were (cleared) there would be public info on it and pc has not posted it."

PC is not the official source for anyone being cleared or otherwise in this murder case. That is the responsibility of the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's Office after appropriate orders and documents have been filed. The Luzerne County District Attorney's Office and the legal system make that determination. Not any outside third party. This includes, but is not limited to, PC or BB.


ok so show me the proof

Renee said...

that is not what this says:

You are parsing meaning. It is but an example email, IM, texting, post/blog material just like letters, notes, maps, diagrams, etc. It's evidence and Dewayne and Jim are right, that evidence will be used.

it specifically states a threatening email.... nothing about blogs, letters, notes, or maps or etc.... says threatening email.... stop making it fit your need.

Renee said...

The trial courts have allowed the use of e-mails, digital photographs, ATM transaction logs, word processing documents, instant message histories, files saved from accounting programs, spreadsheets, internet browser histories, databases, the contents of computer memory, computer backups, computer printouts, Global Positioning System tracks, logs from a hotel’s electronic door locks, and digital video or audio files.


where does it say blogs, show me...
it clearly states emails , so where is the blog , the word blog labeled in this..

Renee said...

will g said...
If Madame were the one on trial here, I could see this issue of blogs to be more relevant. But I don't see it as being even relevant as impeachment evidence against her, since all she is likely to be doing is, as she said, authenticating tapes and letters. They will speak for themselves.


Will dont waste your time, he is just pissed cause i said shit about his boy today.... he is very defensive about sean and seems to like to respond to everything if you say one bad thing about him... as i told him earlier put his money where his mouth is, i have 2500.00 that says there is something filed against sean or grant by the end of this.... so he needs to either shut up or put up... it is that simple..

there is a comprehension problem wiht him understanding verifying a phone call or a letter received in the mail that was in either joe or harlows writing or it was them on the phone initiating a phone call. It is basic and simple either you took the phone call or you didnt , either they wrote the letter or they didnt, they did a handwriting analysis so there isnt much i have to say but i got them in the mail, and seeings they were addressed and postmarked and i gave them to the police it would seem that they have the issue of the letters covered. the other issue is the phone calls, first thing when they call," this call can be monitored or recorded" ok what is the dead give away that you are allowing them to record your conversation... I dont see the issue here. They call , they talk, it is recorded in there voice, not much to dispute is there.

Renee said...

Thane said...
Will,

Were that merely the case some of us would be enjoying a pleasant summer's day.


Well nobody told you to stay on here and defend sean all day. he is a big boy and can do it hisself. what does he need you for to be his savior? I doubt you could be anymore then anyone could be joe or harlows savior.

Renee said...

PC is not the official source for anyone being cleared or otherwise in this murder case. That is the responsibility of the Luzerne County Clerk of Court's Office after appropriate orders and documents have been filed. The Luzerne County District Attorney's Office and the legal system make that determination. Not any outside third party. This includes, but is not limited to, PC or BB.

No one said that they were determining this. but PC would of posted it if it were a document filed with the court, if it happened and it was file then he would of posted it.

jim said...

Had to disapprove one post just now...for name calling.

Everyone has generally been pretty good so far on that score, considering 150+ posts, however; so lets keep the civil discussion flowing, thanks!

Renee said...

jim said...
Had to disapprove one post just now...for name calling.

If it was me Jim sorry about that...

PC said...

Thane,

I've read all of your comments, and I must say, that it somewhat bewilders me as to why you would be so concerned?

PC said...

Thane = Rob... sorry Rob... you made the mistake of posting on my site.

Thane said...

Renee wrote "where does it say blogs, show me...
it clearly states emails , so where is the blog , the word blog labeled in this.." Look at the list Renee it is very specific.

Blogs are electronic transmissions.

Renee said...

TOLD YOU SO ROB!!!!!!!!

will g said...

If Thane = Rob, SO SORRY again for thinking you were the unmentionable. I just had never seen your distinctive new screen name before.

Thane said...

I stated the federal rules since Renee asked here and elsewhere.

jim said...

"BB said...
"Jim: where is the evidence that Bryan made a threat to kill Sean?"

This is the relevant excerpt (from Siren's Tale):

"...While in Maui , Bryan rented a red Shelby Cobra. It was my suggestion He suggested that we rent the car and park it by the beach to take pictures. Brent Corrigan posing in a Shelby Cobra seemed almost like an iconic a catchy concept for Cobra and Bryan so I agreed he liked the idea. . Cobra has since issued the pictures on their site. This was one of the last photo sets I did before I began weight training. When we finished shooting, Bryan and I went for a drive up the coastline.

As Bryan and I got further up the coastline buildings and other people became scarce. When we got to a high point on a cliff Bryan pulled over so that we could enjoy the view. We both got out of the Cobra to walk over to the edge of the cliff to enjoy the view. Standing on the side of that jagged cliff we must have been 100 200 feet from the violent ocean thrashing below. It was breathtaking and I remember thinking, “this is what people RAVE about when they come to Hawaii . This view will always be synonymous with Hawaii for me.” I stood there quietly and Bryan continued to talk. In the car ride up Bryan spoke of the industry and some of the major scandals therein. By the time we had parked the car, Bryan had begun telling me a story about a particular producer who worked with a particular model and their relationship. The story went like this:

Bryan knew, or knew of, a producer once who had done quite well in the gay adult industry. This producer put out films with twinks and young looking boys similarly to the way Bryan does. This producer met a boy at some point and started using the boy in his movies. The boy had expressed sincere and serious interest in getting into the industry and the producer offered to make that happen. Shortly after this producer and the boy began working together THE BOY initiated a very personal and sexual relationship with the producer. It was later discovered that the boy had forged his identification when the FBI came knocking on the producer’s door to check the authenticity of this producer’s 2257 records. Bryan said that the boy blamed Bryan, I mean, the producer for the manipulation of his ID’s and claimed he was innocent of everything. (Innocent slip of the Tongue by Brent?)

The boy refused the truth, according to Bryan . Bryan then told me that this producer would not allow himself to go down due to what this boy supposedly had done to him. When the shit hit the fan, the boy fled knowing that he was in danger. This producer hired “waste management” to go after the boy. Waste Management tracked the boy down in New Jersey and put six bullets in the boy’s chest! Bryan told me the producer had made the decision to do whatever it took to keep himself out of jail, even if it meant that the key witness would have to disappear.

As Bryan told me this story I made the clear distinction between this story and our current situation. Inadvertently Deliberately by telling me this story, Bryan was planting it in my head that I could never allow the truth to come out. If I did, my life would be in danger. Bryan was sending the message that as a producer , he would pull out all the stops to stay out of prison. This is just one clear example of Bryan ’s manipulation/ manipulative mind tactics he used on me to keep me silent.

After I turned 18 I felt my life and the secrets I kept would become easier. After But after hearing this story, all my feelings of apprehension and fear resurfaced; even stronger than before. Bryan had achieved exactly what he set out to do: scare me into submission and silence...."

Renee said...

Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story.

PC said...

"If Thane = Rob, SO SORRY again for thinking you were the unmentionable. I just had never seen your distinctive new screen name before."

Based on what I have, thane sure fits the same profile as rob... same context, same writing style, and same IP... sorry thane, AOL doesn't hide as much as you thought it did.

Thane said...

A question PC? Why are you concerned? The fact remains you do not speak for the legal system in Luzerne County.

I detect a pattern of attempted baiting you tried that on Dewayne's and Dexx's blog. What did he tell you? Separate and distinct from Rob.

jim said...

Given the totality what we know of Bryan's character, however, what Brent says in Siren's Tale is eminently believable.

The unhinged raving Bryan exhibited when he wrote his "I AM THE BOSS!" email to Brent, for example. An email like that goes a long way towards verifying everything Brent says in Siren's Tale. It is exactly the kind of reaction predicted on that clifftop in Hawaii.

Thane said...

Renee wrote "Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story."

And that version being closer to the events it reports gives it credence.

will g said...

Madame said...

Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story.

Madame, you know I love you but that is very biased of you, sorry. This was written well before the murder, was it not? Are you saying he is never to be believed? I am not a Sean groupie by any means, but that seems unfair.

PC said...

"Thane said...
A question PC? Why are you concerned? The fact remains you do not speak for the legal system in Luzerne County.
"

Nor do you... so why would you ask me that question?

"I detect a pattern of attempted baiting you tried that on Dewayne's and Dexx's blog. What did he tell you? Separate and distinct from Rob."

Rob,

Why do you try to act as someone else when the IP address, let alone the similarity of your text would say differently?

Anonymous said...

Geoff,
renee was doing it for Rosalee Kerekes as stated, "smart ass comments" to the ebay community?-
Well with everything she was going through and the fact that some of the questions coming at her were "smart ass" questions by bloggers in this forum- very few, if any "real ebayers" were interested or asking questions.
IMO, in the light of the things that have come out- there was no faux chinchilla scam perpetrated purposely. Maybe ignorance regarding the jacket and its details, was that Rosalee Kerekes' description?
does not matter IMO- either way, this is small potatoes and not Renees doing. She was helping them at the time, believing at the time they were innocent. Time to let that dead fur coat RIP, IMO.

Anonymous said...

Great- Thane is rob?
Thane, rob are you demon as well?
Seriously demon, NOT damon?!
Same writing style there and I do believe it is.

PC said...

"Time to let that dead fur coat RIP, IMO."

But not the Chinchilla :)

jim said...

"Same writing style there and I do believe it is."

FWIW, I kinda figured this as well, but did not care enough to make a big deal out of it.

Change your pseudonym to whatever you want! Thane, Rob, Throb...

Only one person here has to post under his real name, and he had to massively spam this site (and others) under a simultaneous barrage of fake names to earn that special distinction.

So, just avoid doing that, and we wont have a problem.

will g said...

Oh God, not the Demon kerfuffle again. V.J., Thane may be Rob, but Rob is DEFINITELY not Demon, and I would swear to that in court, as BB would say.

Thane said...

PC you keep asking me about writing style. Rob tried the same approach with Jakester. He thought Jakester was Elm as Jim can attest. It got him nowhere.

Tell us about Sean and Grant's dire consequences in Pennsylvania PC.

Renee said...

will g said...
Madame said...

Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story.

Madame, you know I love you but that is very biased of you, sorry. This was written well before the murder, was it not? Are you saying he is never to be believed? I am not a Sean groupie by any means, but that seems unfair.

July 14, 2008 2:54 AM

Will you are mis understanding this , i am saying that this is only one side of the story not that sean is lying ok, i really like to hear both sides of the story, if that is the case, then sean had it bad, but we werent there and we dont know, so this is seans version and that is what it is no matter what anyone says this is seans version, each of us interperts things in a different way you can ask two people to look at the same item or to read something and they will come up with two totally different things. That is why we all see things in a different way. Sean saw it that way, the other part might of saw it another way, we will never know bryan is dead.

Sorry for the misuderstanding

Unknown said...

After reading these posts, I have extra respect for Renee.

Sean Lockhart is a narcissistic little shit. Renee is right. Where are the pics of Renee? There aren't any because she is no publicity hog like Sean. Sean has real psychological problems.

http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom/npd.html

Remee: You Rock!

jim said...

" Rob tried the same approach with Jakester. He thought Jakester was Elm as Jim can attest."

Actually, it's too minor a detail for me to recall.

I've always hated identity speculation.

Albert said...

"Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story."
Then you can have no issue with his report of the events of that day. Bryan did not. He would not and could not deny it.
History is written by the winners. This report is now history. There is no other version.

Gluttony said...

This just keeps getting better..

DeWayne In San Diego said...

"Same writing style there and I do believe it is."

FWIW, I kinda figured this as well, but did not care enough to make a big deal out of it.

Uh how long have we all been blogging Jim? How many Alias have we read? I know a half dozen Elm uses, we have many different posters some who use one Alias for a long time then switch.

Like you I gave up trying to figure everyone out a long time ago.

The ONLY participants in the Kocisphere that you can absolutely 100% be sure of their identity...

Brent
Grant
DeWayne
Cedric
and Renee (Madame)
well maybe Gluttony

everyone else is an Alias.

Renee said...

Thane said...
Renee wrote "Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story."

And that version being closer to the events it reports gives it credence


IN your eyes, not in everyones eyes.

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