Or rather, non-hearing. This an excerpt from
his blog post from yesterday:
"...And then, lets not forget the Bryan Kocis murder case. Grant and I have navigated a living nightmare for more than a year now, doing everything we can to show the authorities and (indirectly) his family that we want to do what is right. Forget any press is good press. When the world and your industry insists on implicating you as a murder suspect, nothing good can come of that. Grant and I put everything on the line to voluntarily take part in a two day wire tap that ultimately provided the Pennsylvania authorities with evidence that will make their case against the murder suspects.
Sunday, July 6th Grant and I voluntarily traveled to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania to sit on the stand and declare we consented to the wire tap. Along with more than 10 other witnesses, we sat delayed for two days while the attorneys of the accused fumbled their way through the proceedings that ultimately rescheduled these pertinent pretrial hearings. Grant and I basically wasted 3 days in PA and then lost another to traveling cross-country. We endured a tampering and hostile witness (Madam) that went as far as to declare to the online world which hotel we were being discreetly and safely tucked away at. To top it all off, while waiting outside the court room Grant and I experienced harassment and name calling and hostility from the family of the deceased.
We had to hide from the media who had cameras trained on the holding rooms the authorities put us in (they moved us to a safer location to prevent from any more harrassment). I couldn’t even leave to use the restroom without them sticking cameras in my face. At one point, I was so frustrated with not even being allowed the luxury of relieving my bladder in peace that I flipped the cameras off. I forgot to explain to them that in my world that can be considered a gesture of endearment. Oops! I never watched to news to see if they aired it.
Thankfully Grant and I have each other. This murder case has strained our relationship exponentially to the point where what we once had together hardly even exists anymore. I love him. He’s the most important person in my life. We’re a team. We only have each other. Our relationship is truly one of a kind. Very sadly, things have been so strained that we cannot carry on a traditional relationship. There was a time where who we were to each other and how we felt about each other could be clearly defined. However, after navigating this case, building two companies from scratch, being screwed around and fucked over royally by Lee Bergeron- we aren’t what we used to be. We have both grown and become very different people, but our love and the fact that we only have each other has somehow managed to thrive and maintain itself. We will always be together in one way or another. My one wish is that Grant and I can work through things better so that some of this unwarranted stress and tension might relieve me...."
...
"...I’m not sad or depressed. I’m completely overwhelmed. The pretrial hit me hard and all of the momentum I had recovered before flying out to Pennsylvania has dissipated. I’m trying to figure out where to go from here. My self esteem appears to be suffering. I’m deflated and tired. As pathetic as it sounds . . . I haven’t had the energy or the time to work out in almost two months. That fact alone has ruined my sense of confidence (and probably severely affected my bodily chemistry). I had a respiratory infection that plagued me for two months. It has taken me this long to figure out it’s probably just really bad allergies I’ve developed as a result of growing older in a region I’m not originally from.
Why am I listing all this? Therapy I guess. Maybe I’m just trying to sort it all out through my fingertips. Some of my distance here may be a result of the fact that I have not felt like I could continue to be as honest about my life as I have in the past.
I wish I could find the energy and organization to move forward with everything that I should be using to springboard me into to what I’ve always wanted. The trouble now, it seems, is that I feel so deflated that I’m not so convinced I want all of what I was so originally determined to have."
Plus these comments added by Grant:
I LOVE YOU BABE! …and no matter what, “Just Keep on Truckin!”
>Grant
...
Comment by Grant — On July 11th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
and
Of course Woody, I was there! Lol… No Seriously, we were always no more than a phone call away from Pennsylvania’s finest, including senior detectives with the Luzerne County District Attorneys Office, Pennsylvania State Police and Dallas Township.
The Common Wealth of Pennsylvania have always been most professional, gracious and accommodating!
Comment by Grant — On July 11th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Update: Renee responds with her own witness room recollections in these here comments. The Reader's Digest version (thus far):
1. Sean alledgedly made a heterophobic comment about women (?!) during a meeting of hearing witnesses, and was upset when told "you should try one before you knock it." Renee reported the alledged incident to the DAs;
2. Sean alledgedly complained of cold pizza;
3. Sean alledgedly said he was cold in the courthouse, and needed a sweater;
4. In Renee's view, Sean played to the cameras rather than avoided them; and
5. Grant and Sean were alledgedly seen "hanging out with" with fellow witness Andrew Shunk (aka Mason Banks, former Boybatter model and potential Confidential Informant #1) in a bookstore on the public square; Renee also felt compelled to report this alledged gathering of three people within earshot of each other to the DAs.
Update 2: Blogger NG weighs in, in
back to
back posts on his own blog. One amusing observation: "As of this post, out of 172 comments made on SOTC, more than half are from Renee."
316 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 316 of 316Albert said...
"Jim my issue with a sirens tale is that is seans version of the story."
Then you can have no issue with his report of the events of that day. Bryan did not. He would not and could not deny it.
History is written by the winners. This report is now history. There is no other version.
I hate to tell you but it is seen through the eyes of the writer, only the writer writing what they are writing can tell the story the way they do and no two people will see it the same way. Does not mean there is no other version
pc said,
"But not the Chinchilla"
LOL!!
No of course not!!!!!
BobbyJo said...
After reading these posts, I have extra respect for Renee.
Sean Lockhart is a narcissistic little shit. Renee is right. Where are the pics of Renee? There aren't any because she is no publicity hog like Sean. Sean has real psychological problems.
http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom/npd.html
Remee: You Rock!
Thank you , and i am inclined to agree with your opinion after what i saw.
DeWayne In San Diego said...
everyone else is an Alias.
Just for the record, not that I belong to the Kocisphere, but I dislike aliases, my name is Will, and I have never used another screen name ever on the internet, except for ATKOL, which was a mixup. So THERE!
will,
Do NOT swear in a court of law on that one- you would be wrong.
But as jim stated it really does not matter how many names rob [or anyone else] wants to be. Just a little surprising is all!
I agree with Albert Bryan NEVER responded to the Siren's tale.
Except with more threats which culminated a month later with the
"Mickys" incident June 29th 2006
Which destroyed much of what was left of Bryans tattered reputation.
Of course the revelation in March of Bryans 2001 conviction had started that process since it vindicated the central premise of The Sirens Tale...
Bryan Kocis was a Pedophile
While Brent was a lone voice THEN
Other boys have spoken and been interviewd...
At the conclusion and with the conviction of Joe and Harlow
phase two begins
Do you understand Renee
the attacks from the Kocis family and associates are aimed at discrediting Sean as a witness in the upcoming Federal case against the survivor of Bryan Kocis little Child Porn company
Robert Wagner
He who was complicit in ALL of Bryans Criminal activity
Robert won't cheat justice like Bryan
He is going to Prison
Will anyone is an Alias until such time as someones name and picture has been revealed.
Thats what an Alias is
Dewayne,
Madame Renee and Gluttonty are one and the same. They share the same misspellings. Compare "haft to." And further, consider the improbability of it. Imagine hafting to go home to that every night, not to mention the horror of conjugal relations. Bobbyjo is a likely entry to the foursome, also, but we are not supposed to speculate about identities here. I forgot I was on SOC. Renee, this is what we literati call textual analysis. Now take your Milwaukee's Best and Marlboro Light back in the trailer. The deputies will be here any minute.
V.J. - I agree it doesn't really matter, and I don't want to bore people with this, so I'll just say --
Rob has carried on a years-long e-mail relationship with Kent? Highly unlikely. If you want to respond, we should probably go to e-mail.
" DeWayne In San Diego said...
I agree with Albert Bryan NEVER responded to the Siren's tale...."
As a matter of fact, Bryan never even asked for a retraction of Siren's Tale, when he had a golden opportunity to.
The settlement agreement had a retraction clause. In fact, the clause was somewhat misnamed, because in reality, Brent never had to retract anything he actually said, in so many words.
The only thing the retraction clause called for was for Brent to publically state Bryan was unaware Brent was underage when he was first hired.
And thats it. Funny thing is, Brent never made such a claim, explicitly. There were implications Bryan might have known the known all along Brent was 17...and it was those vague implications that Brent was bound to retract.
Bryan could have demanded all of Siren's Tale...including the Hawaii cliff incident...be retracted. He did not.
My guess is, Bryan knew he could not legally ask Brent and Grant to retract facts that he knew to be true. And that's why none of Siren's Tale was ever included in the retraction clause.
DeWayne In San Diego said...
Will anyone is an Alias until such time as someones name and picture has been revealed.
Thats what an Alias is.
Have to take issue with that, my friend. This is what an alias is:
a·li·as Pronunciation[ey-lee-uhs]
–noun
1. a false name used to conceal one's identity; an assumed name: The police files indicate that “Smith” is an alias for Simpson.
My name is Will, dammit! Just because I don't post my surname or picture with it does not change that fact!
Dewayne i dont know anything about that, and the kocis family should not be doing sean that way if he was helping to catch bryans killer, but we will just have to see on this one
Geoff Harvard said...
Dewayne,
Madame Renee and Gluttonty are one and the same. They share the same misspellings. Compare "haft to." And further, consider the improbability of it. Imagine hafting to go home to that every night, not to mention the horror of conjugal relations. Bobbyjo is a likely entry to the foursome, also, but we are not supposed to speculate about identities here. I forgot I was on SOC. Renee, this is what we literati call textual analysis. Now take your Milwaukee's Best and Marlboro Light back in the trailer. The deputies will be here any minute.
Take yourself back to lot #8 with harlows mom.
gluttony is gluttony and madame is me if you dont like it tough tittie. gluttony and i went to the same school neither one of us graduated from second grade, does that help you
geoff said:
Bobbyjo is a likely entry to the foursome, also, but we are not supposed to speculate about identities here.
Bobbyjo last i knew i tried to hire you to manage the bordello and you didnt show up for work, wtf, now i am you and you are me and we are all gluttony, can you all please make up your mind who i am cause i am getting confused.
Geoff Harvard said
Madame Renee and Gluttonty are one and the same. They share the same misspellings. Compare "haft to." And further, consider the improbability of it. Imagine hafting to go home to that every night, not to mention the horror of conjugal relations. Bobbyjo is a likely entry to the foursome, also, but we are not supposed to speculate about identities here. I forgot I was on SOC. Renee, this is what we literati call textual analysis. Now take your Milwaukee's Best and Marlboro Light back in the trailer. The deputies will be here any minute.
Geoff your writings seem very familiar to me more like on the lines of Pastor George. One In the same huh you have fell of the toilet bowl too many times.
VJ who the hell am i today... It is sunday i believe that makes me Sister Renee....
during the week i am madame Renee does that help everyone
pastor gluttony is pastor gluttony and he everyday of the week,
hell bobbyjo i dont know who you are but we can all be you if you want according to geoff we are all one in the same, Jim check the ips will you, gluttony and i come from the same ip, out of fort worth. Bobbyjo comes from someplace else
Will
I believe you.
okay Will I will add yo to my list
Real people (not an Alias)on the Kocispehere
Brent
Grant
DeWayne
Cedric
Renee
Will G
Rob
Albert
Jim congrats the first 200+ post in the Kocisphere in 2008 right?
Possibly...
DeWayne said, "The ONLY participants in the Kocisphere that you can absolutely 100% be sure of their identity...
Brent
Grant
DeWayne
Cedric
and Renee (Madame)
well maybe Gluttony"
Brynawel, Jody and I, now get to tie DeWayne up in a chair and shave his entire body. :)
DeWayne In San Diego said...
okay Will I will add yo to my list
Real people (not an Alias)on the Kocispehere
Brent
Grant
DeWayne
Cedric
Renee
Will G
Rob
Albert
I am so proud DeWayne, thank you. Pretty good company, IMO.
"Jim congrats the first 200+ post in the Kocisphere in 2008 right?"
I'm not so sure it's something worth being proud over.
Hey, it's twice the nonsense as a 100 comment post! :-)
will,
I am not an alias as Vincent James is my name so V.J. works!! :)
jim said...
Hey, it's twice the nonsense as a 100 comment post! :-)
HEY, WATCH IT, BUDDY!
DeWayne, add V.J. to that list immediately!
madame says,
"who am I today"
Well that would be Sister Renee, and I do love the picture of your habit.
Pastor Gluttony is indeed Pastor Gluttony- your husband!
and we know that, we also know Bobbyjo is a couple who comment occasionally- one is Bobby and one is Jo-
Geoff is a little paranoid.
The whole who's who thing is boring.
jim said...
Hey, it's twice the nonsense as a 100 comment post! :-)
now this is the best thing i have heard all day....
Madame, going back to the first comment on this post, you said, "As for the issues with the kocis family , the reason they had something to say was because they believe that Sean and Grant had something to do with this crime."
Since they have no reason to believe Brent had anything to do with Bryan's death, to assume they believe he had something to do with it is not a logical assumption. It is in fact an insidious implication on your part. Based on nothing in reality.
The Kocis family has animosity for Brent because Bryan made Brent a fixation in his own mind. He dedicated the last years of his life and hundreds of thousands of dollars on his obsession with Brent. They lost Bryan due to the mental obsession of Bryan's own making. Later he was killed. The fact that he was killed is a separate subject.
The Kocis family still attempt to make money off of Brent by continuing the operation of their illegal and undocumented porn company. A company that still claims to feature Brent Corrigan. They are motivated by greed. The whole concept of "closure" is bullshit. They have also attempted to sue Harlow and Joe for loss of income from that illegal operation.
To suggest they have a reason to be abusive to a key states witness that helped resolve the murder of their son is not rational.
Revised list of Real Bloggies
Real people (not an Alias)on the Kocispehere
Brent
Grant
DeWayne
Cedric
Renee
Will G
Rob
Albert
V.J.(Vincent James)
Jody Wheeler
Brynawel
Geoff Harvard is an Alias but the real man has talked to me ;)
Jim is your first name Jim?
somehow I think you must be a real person.
I do recall in the early days many here thought you were Grant ;)
Funny thing Grant thought YOU were me.
I was confused
sometimes I still am!
;)
"Jim is your first name Jim?"
Maybe... ;-)
Obviously somebody is afraid of getting shaved.
To suggest they have a reason to be abusive to a key states witness that helped resolve the murder of their son is not rational.
Albert not what i said. I said they should be thanking Sean for helping the police find who killed their son. Whatever the issues between Bryan and Sean , that was history when Bryan was killed, the family should be glad that sean did what he did to help catch them. They should not want to continue the obsession bryan had with sean. If he did what he did and it seems that way by the blacks beach tapes, then they should not treat him the way they are treating him, if he hadnt done this they would not have as much as they do on joe and harlow. As for what the kocis family believes about sean or grant well, they have to get over that, he did do the blacks beach tapes, i am not condoning what they are doing, but they feel in their own way they are right. As for profiting from all this crap they should leave all of it alone and move on there is no glory in owning that company or the trash that went with it. As for sueing Joe and Harlow I think they jumped the gun and got a judgement with a secure conviction. They should of atleast waited until after the trial but i have to agree with you they did go for that early to secure $$$ that joe and harlow dont have. Whatever there reasoning we will never know. Please do not misinterpert what i am saying. i do not believe what they are doing is right but they have their reasons whatever they are. As for the issue with the whole Sean movie thing, it is what got there son killed why would they want to make money off of something that got him killed. (not the movies, the whole thing about getting him with joe and harlow) maybe it is time for the kocis family to do some real soul searching, they would probably still be at a stalemate if it were not for the blacks beach tapes. I will without a doubt give Sean credit for this, knowing he was scared of joe and harlow, he went well above and beyond what he needed to do. This is what the kocis family should be saying thank you for.
Renee, I was not asking a question. I was making a statement of fact. There is no alternative version of the event's of the day Bryan threatened to kill Brent. That is history and fact. It happened. Your 'BB' like denial will not change that.
Bryan was a sick man. He was obsessed with possession and control, particularly in regards to Brent. Those are facts. He was speaking about Brent moments before he died. They were not words of love. They were words of ownership.
Madame, going back to the first comment on this post, you said, "As for the issues with the kocis family , the reason they had something to say was because they believe that Sean and Grant had something to do with this crime."
Since they have no reason to believe Brent had anything to do with Bryan's death, to assume they believe he had something to do with it is not a logical assumption. It is in fact an insidious implication on your part. Based on nothing in reality.
sorry i missed this. based on something but i cannot say at this time. if it were public knowledge i would say but at the moment it is not public knowledge so i can not say. The kocis family is allowed to think what they want whether you like it or i like it or anyone else likes it. Like the rest of us they can have their own opinion on this whole thing too.
Cedric = Elmysterio. I would change it but I like the name elmysterio
Actually, "Brynawel" is an alias, but I guess you refer to posters who don't change their aliases, DeWayne?
Well, I go away for a short time to pursue another amusement, and I get swamped with comments when I return.
Do we have a bullshit-o-meter somewhere in Kocisphere?
And if I have to read that sister/pastor/closet humbug again I have to puke all over my keyboard.
We'll from the recent pix, as well as the short cameo of Sean in PA court house, it appears Sean has a bad bleach job and needs a nice hair cut.
Too bad he has a chance to look the part of the object of desire worth killing for and he shows up looking like a white trash hustler right off the East end of Santa Monica Blvd.
Has he forgotten how good he looked in some of those slightly older photos? There was a clean freshness there. The classroom pictures, the dress pants with tie near the computer.
Sean, get your act together, straighten up and fly right. Lay off the partying, and quit trying to ruin your looks.
"sorry i missed this. based on something but i cannot say at this time. if it were public knowledge i would say but at the moment it is not public knowledge so i can not say. The kocis family is allowed to think what they want whether you like it or i like it or anyone else likes it. Like the rest of us they can have their own opinion on this whole thing too."
Your pattern and practice has been to dump kerosene on the fire and watch it roar. Your above statement is McCarthyesque. We can read. Anytime you are seriously challenged on the facts, you tweek the spin.
The only version of the Maui death threat on the record and, therefore, history in Albert's words, is Sean's account.
Three persons need each other at this moment. Those three spin dire consequences. And those dire consequences fail to appear.
brynawel said...
Actually, "Brynawel" is an alias, but I guess you refer to posters who don't change their aliases, DeWayne?
Well, I go away for a short time to pursue another amusement, and I get swamped with comments when I return.
Do we have a bullshit-o-meter somewhere in Kocisphere?
And if I have to read that sister/pastor/closet humbug again I have to puke all over my keyboard.
Better get to best buy and buy a new keyboard you are gonna be puking all day again.....
Albert said...
Renee, I was not asking a question. I was making a statement of fact. There is no alternative version of the event's of the day Bryan threatened to kill Brent. That is history and fact. It happened. Your 'BB' like denial will not change that.
Bryan was a sick man. He was obsessed with possession and control, particularly in regards to Brent. Those are facts. He was speaking about Brent moments before he died. They were not words of love. They were words of ownership.
Well then why did Brent allow himself to be owned by bryan and why did he go back for more? Dont start the brent pity party on me. That is his side of the story no matter what you say, you can say it is fact all you want. That is brents version of what happened. If bryan was so controlling and manipulating why did brent go back there? Greed? Money? For what bryan had? Dont give me the poor brent syndrome. People create their environments and if he allowed bryan to do this then he set himself up, no one else did.
So why dont you throw this pity part brent on his blog. Did Bryan Kocis chain brent to the bed or something? so that he could never leave? hell no, he just threatened to take his jetta, BOO HOO!
quickysrt said...
We'll from the recent pix, as well as the short cameo of Sean in PA court house, it appears Sean has a bad bleach job and needs a nice hair cut.
Too bad he has a chance to look the part of the object of desire worth killing for and he shows up looking like a white trash hustler right off the East end of Santa Monica Blvd.
Absoutly perfect description, you did not hold back in anyway. Glad to see that you could voice your opinion and not get attacked by goeff,thane, and albert. But the day is young yet. Maybe i can get my daily dose of bashing early today too. But he did look like peter pan and we all know how that story went.
"Well then why did Brent allow himself to be owned by bryan and why did he go back for more?"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Sean believed that he had no choice. Bryan had coerced against self-interest by threat of criminal charges for the fake ID. This is not true, but to cause Sean to be controlled was Kocis' goal. Sean also mentions financial necessity. He was operating under duress and the principle "Better to go with the Devil you know."
Kocis also intimidated other models into following his line by threat of outing them to family, friends, employers and business associates.
You are condoning, the manipulation and terror tactics of an ephebophobic ringmaster and are going against the known facts regarding Kocis.
Renee you don't read closely. Quicky is not anti Sean.
He is passing along advice for his modeling looks and to avoid overdoing the party scene.
"better get to best buy and get another keyboard, you are going to be puking all over again"
LOL!! :)
Yep. Bryan was a master manipulator, there is a superabundance of evidence on that score.
And Brent was an 18 year old kid with very limited options at the time.
Despite this imbalance of power, Brent DID eventually manage to break free, and as you say, create his own enviroment. And he did it in a most spectacular fashion.
And for that, Bryan, Cobra Video fans, and other rank-and-file NAMBLA members waged war against Brent for years.
Do you really want to be associated with that crowd, Renee?
jim said...
And for that, Bryan, Cobra Video fans, and other rank-and-file NAMBLA members waged war against Brent for years.
Do you really want to be associated with that crowd, Renee?
Now hold on there just a minute. That last line really brought me up short. Someone mentioned McCarthy earlier, and I think you perhaps are touching on those kind of guilt-by-association tactics there. To imply that someone would be sympathetic to the NAMBLA crowd if they question Sean and his motives is not kosher.
You know I am sympathetic to Sean in general, but Renee shouldn't be intimidated with those kinds of implications if she disagrees.
Thane said...
Renee you don't read closely. Quicky is not anti Sean.
He is passing along advice for his modeling looks and to avoid overdoing the party scene.
never said he was anti sean, I am not anti sean. I really dont care about sean I was just asking questions and you all went on the defensive about sean which is what you always do, You clean up the messes he makes.... He is looking for a free ride and only sees $$$$ in whoever it is he is with, who can make him the most money or who can market and peddle his ass the most to make him money, bryan wasnt worth it cause he wanted to keep more money then sean got. so sean in turn went and got grant to do his deeds and peddle his ass.
Do you really want to be associated with that crowd, Renee?
Jim never said i did, but you are comparing apples to oranges and trying to paint sean as an angel that never did anything to anyone but be sold for money, that is not the case , sean did what he did for his own personal gain and had an issue with bryan cause of money, (back to the greed issue) Money is the root of all evil even in seans instance, he was not the innocent. Innocent 17 year olds dont peddle there asses.
"You know I am sympathetic to Sean in general, but Renee shouldn't be intimidated with those kinds of implications if she disagrees."
Yeah I know, but this is the real world, and in this real world those sort of implications get made, whether fairly or not.
"...and had an issue with bryan cause of money,..."
There were more issues than just money. There was also the romantic issue (Bryan was in love with Brent, and not vice versa), the criminal issue (Bryan faced serious jail time for negligently [or intentionally, as Elm believes]filming underage porn), the ego issue (Bryan felt he had to discredit Brent to salvage his own reputation in the industry) and the revenge issue (on both sides...which overshadowed all issues in the end).
All these issues were in play. Don't make the mistake of neglecting them, and overemphasizing money.
nambla - now the blog sinks to a new low.
but nowq you mention it, the only proof i have seen of anyone fitting close to being part of that disgusting organisation is dewayne.
his taste in very very young men are well documented.
if Bryan did make a threat to murder Sean, why did Sean go back to him?
its more smoke mirrors and BS.
Dewayne, all your Robert Wagenr comments, threats and attacks will not mask your own well documented truths.
Rob/Thane. my previous comment to Dewayne applies to you as well.
BB i see you are on a roll today, i dont understand why Rob is masking himself as thane? We all know that he is anal retentive
( not meant in a name calling sense) and there is not a need to mask himself as thane. Thane also seems to be worse then rob in the anal department. Is this his alter ego, or is Rob, Thane, Geoff, kinda like Joe is Joe, trent, Mark. Kinda similiar thing going on there. Maybe he has the same pshchotic issues as joe also
" BB said...
nambla - now the blog sinks to a new low.
but nowq you mention it, the only proof i have seen of anyone fitting close to being part of that disgusting organisation is dewayne."
Actually no, there was at least other anti-Brent commenter a while back...he has not posted in a while, so I don't quite recall his screen name...but anyways, his last comment that I remember went something like this (paraphrazing):
"Sean is a big liar, and I will never forgive for destroying my favorite porn company Cobra Video. And OMG his latest pics are horrible...he has been working out and has put all this muscle on...I HATE this trend in twink models, I WISH twinks would stop doing this (makes them look way older than 18 when they do this, RUINS them)."
To me, this guy typifies the Cobra Video customer base.
BB said...
if Bryan did make a threat to murder Sean, why did Sean go back to him?
BB, the threat was that harm would come to him if he left/struck out on his own, wasn't it? (I should go back and reread it, but that was my impression.) So isn't that your answer?
BB, sorry, just reread it to find the threat was about the forged ID. However, I think there is also an implied threat about being independent.
The following is from the Affidavit of Probable Cause supporting the request for warrants of arrest for Harlow Cuadra and Joseph Kerekes:
Subsequent to further investigation, the following email exchanges were obtained by investigators with the Pennsylvania State Police;
On 03/03/07, at a time registered at 1014 am, the following message was forwarded via "myspace.com/harlowcuadra" to Grant Roy; "hey grant its harlow so when we gonna start filming? U know we had an agreement Joe"
On 03/03/07 at a time registered at 1015 am, the following message was also forwarded via "myspace.com/harlowcuadra" to Grant Roy; "you need to make some king of contact with us before I tell them you hired us joe"
On 03/03/07 at a time registered at 1017 am, the following message was also forwarded via "myspace.com/harlowcuadra" to Grant Roy; "and we all know what u said to us at the avn in vegas and we have it on tape recorder and out conversation at le Cirque is recorded as well dont fuck with us"
On 03/03/07 at a time registered at 1043 am, the following message was also forwarded via "myspace.com/harlowcuadra" to Grant Roy; "we are going to visit san diego this week or next and we need to meet we hope to see u soon"
From this it is clear to me that Joe, at least, and possibly Harlow left the dinner at Le Cirque with the understanding that if Bryan Kocis were out of the picture Sean Brent would be available to film with Boybatters using the name "Brent Corrigan." I say "possibly Harlow" because what Jim has called the "Harlow apology" indicates that Harlow, at least, realized by the time of the Black Beach Tapes that no deal was reached at Le Cirque.
As for Joe, comments have been posted on this and other blogs indicating that he may be somewhat deficient in the IQ department. His understanding of what transpired at Le Cirque might be only wishful thinking.
As for any criminal charges against Sean and Grant, as much as some hope to see them, I don't see that happening. There first of all has to be probable cause to have them arrested. Then, whatever the charges against them, they have to be proven beyond reasonable doubt. I don't see either of these standards being met. I don't believe there was a tape of the Le Cirque discussion, for if there were it would probably have been produced at the subsequent visit to San Diego. In the absence of a tape, what was said at Le Cirque is a matter of "we say, they say," with the word of two convicted murderes against that of two who cooperated with the police.
albert said,
Since they have no reason to believe Brent had anything to do with Bryan's death, to assume they believe he had something to do with it is not a logical assumption.
Let's face it. Bryan was murdered because of Brent. As I've pointed out in another comment, Joe, at least, thought that this was the result of a deal. I don't happen to believe that but I think the Kocis family has reason to feel hostile toward Brent and Grant.
Prof - Agree with everything you said in the first post above. However, you can ask BB what was said at Le Cirque, he seems to know even though he wasn't there. . .
(Isn't that right. BB?)
I think Joe thought he could "create" a deal, ex post facto, by murdering Bryan.
In his pea-brained imagination, I think he thought Sean and Grant would shower them with hosanna of praise, and partner with them out of sheer gratitude for the unexpected gift of a murder.
And during the BBTs, Sean and Grant both disabused him of that notion. They made it clear to H&J they were less-than-happy. At that point, both Harlow and Joe apologized.
"Sean is a big liar, and I will never forgive for destroying my favorite porn company Cobra Video. And OMG his latest pics are horrible...he has been working out and has put all this muscle on...I HATE this trend in twink models, I WISH twinks would stop doing this (makes them look way older than 18 when they do this, RUINS them)."
never seen that before.
lets not forget Dewayne and Albert were Cobra customers and supporters. Albert said himself he bought EPD coz the model on cover (Sean) looked like he was 15.
That speaks volumes to me.
Anyone else care to admit to buying Cobra Videos?
Renee, Rob/Thane is playing usual games. He is known to me. He has been reported. No he is sacred coz the DA's office list of bloggers on this case is growing.
Yeah. To Albert's credit, however, adding muscle tone, chin skruff and hence looking 20ish has not "ruined" Brent for him.
"Anyone else care to admit to buying Cobra Videos?"
BB, I never bought one but watched many and enjoyed them. I find your demonizing of people for their taste in porn (which is legal) to be really offensive. Who are you, Andrea Dworkin?
BB
Must have been something Dewayne said to you.
Tend to your own problems.
And now an appeal to the blog master here.
Everyone has been doing a remarkable job of staying on point. Why must we be treated to more of BB's character assassination and flamethrower tactics? That's the crap unmentionable uses. I come over here for honest debate, even if I disagree with those views. We were talking about Bryan's motivations in controlling and manipulating Sean. I fail to see the relevance in a personal attack directed at Dewayne or anyone else for that matter.
i'd have bought Seans woe is me story IF he did not turn tricks and continued in porn.
as for his CobraKiller, he used many tactics online to attack Bryan. The CobraKiller claimed he owned a trucking company and that he was worth million. That was a lie. He then said he had a trust fund, more lies.
They both expect everyone to accept what they say at face value. I cant and wont do that with chronic liars such as them.
Then Dewayne... he is in lust with Sean and will do anything for him. The pics of Sean and Dewayne trun my stomach, it is disgusting to see an old man drool over someone less than 1/2 his age.
These people are all the things they accuse a dead man of being.
Look what happened at court... nobody ever trashed the Kocis family till Sean had a run in with them. What do these people do? They attack Kocis family coz Sean did not like what they had to say.
So easy for them to continue to beat up a man who is dead, a man they wanted dead.
It shows what kind of monsters they really are.
They then attack me for calling the out on their own lies and perversion.
Disgusting and pathetic to say the least.
BB said...
Renee, Rob/Thane is playing usual games. He is known to me. He has been reported. No he is sacred coz the DA's office list of bloggers on this case is growing.
Jim, that seems to be a threat to everyone here, and I don't think you should allow it.
BB sent out a post a few weeks back asking all bloggers to stop the personal attacks on each other.
Glad to see you practicing what you preach, BB.
Will G,
Regarding BB, he can threaten all wishes. BB has never had an original thought with facts, only to attack others when he does not like the direction of the fact trail. Renee fools no one. Keep up the attitude and your credibility will go down in flames under cross examination. You are needed for foundation of the taped calls and little else.
I do believe PC got himself into quicksand on the Thane is Rob BS from the last night. His proof, writing style. Unless PC produces linguist's credentials, he is out of his element and not qualified for that kind of opinion.
I posed a question to PC here and elsewhere, and I am still waiting for his answer because he implied dire consequences on his blog prior to the Evidentiary Hearing for certain witnesses. What dire consequences are to befall Sean and Grant?
"BB, I never bought one but watched many and enjoyed them. I find your demonizing of people for their taste in porn (which is legal) to be really offensive."
Will, you are out of the loop clealry.
I have never demonized anyone who has bought or watched a Cobra Video.
The demonizing was done by Sean, CobraKiller, Albert and Dewayne.
Makes me laugh as Albert and Dewayne were big Cobra customers. They now say most Cobra Videos feature underage models.
Rob,
If you view the truth as attacks, that is your problem.
We already know you know nothing about the truth. I say this based on all your previous lies and claims.
If you want control over a blog, start your own.
Rob,
If you view the truth as attacks, that is your problem.
We already know you know nothing about the truth. I say this based on all your previous lies and claims.
If you want control over a blog, start your own.
You seem to have a problem with anyone holding Bryan Kocis in disrepute.
Grant Roy is a trucking business heir. From that business, he shares in a family trust with his siblings.
What's your problem BB? Some of it is a lack of facts. Case in point, the age issue was a big hobby horse with you and has disappeared. Fact is Sean is 21, not 22.
BB, with your scare tactics and double-talk, I'm very glad to be out of that loop.
Question: Why can't you participate in a discussion of this case without A) calling Sean and Grant murderers and B) attacking other bloggers/commenters? Is that really impossible for you?
Which fact do you know or ever claim to have held? YOU no longer have Cad backing you up. The only thing you know is to attempt intimidation.
As for Peter, check with Elm. He isn't an ally to rely on. You are on your own. But then I forgot, Julien tired of your BS and let you have it on before he stopped blogging. I agree with Will's statement.
Thane said...
"Renee fools no one. Keep up the attitude and your credibility will go down in flames under cross examination. You are needed for foundation of the taped calls and little else."
Thane, isn't that a bit of a contradiction? I agree that's all she is needed for, so the scope of cross-examination on her credibility will necessarily be very limited under the rules of cross -- it can't go beyond the scope of the direct examination.
Better get to best buy and buy a new keyboard you are gonna be puking all day again.....
Yeah, that is exactly the standard I expected from you. You don't disappoint.
BB, I am excited that you managed for a second time to break the truce you were begging for.
No Will but she can be impeached on what she has said.
Blogger will g said...
BB, with your scare tactics and double-talk, I'm very glad to be out of that loop.
Question: Why can't you participate in a discussion of this case without A) calling Sean and Grant murderers and B) attacking other bloggers/commenters? Is that really impossible for you?
Will you ask a silly question BB has been attacking Sean and Grant and anyone who defends them since July 2005 on Juicygoo.
When BB is publicly exposed we are all going to have a laugh.
It will have been so obvious and in our face all along.
BB is a central player always has been you don't build up such a reservoir of corrosive HATRED without knowing someone in the real world.
BB has ALWAYS defended Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagners little pedophile empire...
BB is complicit in Bryans crimes
Guilt by Association and affiliation,,
You defend the Dark Side Always have always will.
Simple as that really.
And Will surely you have figured it out.
BB
Robert Wagners nicknames are Bio Boy and Bondage Boy
http://picasaweb.google.com/dewayneinsd/RobertWagner/photo#5222982960289099074
Good point Will, re: crossexamination.
If all Renee has to do is authenticate the tapes, crossexamination will be short.
And BY THE WAY, a fact we seem to have overlooked throughout 281 comments...apparantly, according to Brent, prosecutors intend to use Breant and Grant in precisely the same way, no more no less. Here's what Brent just said:
"Sunday, July 6th Grant and I voluntarily traveled to Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania to sit on the stand and declare we consented to the wire tap."
And that's it.
It seems to me, the prosecutors aim to use Renee, Sean and Grant in precisely the same way...for transcript authentication only. And then excuse them from the witness box.
And then roll the tape.
This will certainly limit the potential for crossexamination.
will i have never made a threat to anyone - nobody can provide one as an exmaple either.
several direct threats have been made towards me - they were reported. this is a murder case. i take no chances. those that made proven direct threats to me (and others) are dewanye, sean, cobrakiller and thane/rob.
odd you ignore my post on cobra customers.
dewayne, how desperate you are to ID me. it will do you no good. imagine the laugh when you all find out i am in fact who i say i am.
you can not provide any post that declares i support and/or defend bryan and robert.
you'll find plenty where i reveal information about others such as yourself.
getting in a hottub with 3 twinks does nothing good for your already tarnished image. it is disgusting a man of your years doing such a thing with those less than 1/2 your age. then there is the other images of you drooling over sean.
so yep keep throwing stones along with others who defend a porn model/escort, they bounce right back off me.
rob claims:
"Grant Roy is a trucking business heir. From that business, he shares in a family trust with his siblings."
Wrong again Rob. Mamma Roy made sure her CobraKiller could not get involved in the buisness before her death. She left him a little money. Cant have been much though, Sean continued to beg for money for he and his Cobrakiller online. It is well documented.
Then the cobrakiller needed Lee to pay for BCO.
Not that actions of someone who is Rich.
Odd how you ignore the CobraKillers claim that he is worth millions. Ok not so odd, it does not owrk with the story and image you wish to present.
In my recent postings I've assumed that Harlow and Joe are guilty of the murder of Bryan Kocis. Of course, they are entitled to a presumption of innocence until the case is presented to the jury. We haven't heard much about their defense. And so whatever I've said should include the qualification, "Assuming that the prosecution case is correct ..."
bb keeps talking about "facts." However, my impression is that his comments are mostly lacking in facts and in logic. He seems to specialize in name-calling.
"BB is a central player always has been you don't build up such a reservoir of corrosive HATRED without knowing someone in the real world."
Dunno about that, you and Rob do just fine with HATRED not only towards the living, but also the dead.
As for me being a player, your so far of the mark. Stick to what you know for sure.
These are BB words from my blog. the post is "K****r Found" the very first comment I might add.
BB said...
this fucking with bloggers crap needs to stop. lets EVERYONE take a calm down period - at least till after the next court thingy.
are you man enough to do this?
lets remain focused. so much REAL information will be revealed soon enough - from those that matter.
enough is enough.
as for kunite, he deserves what he gets.
June 27, 2008 2:13 PM
That is why we all love BB he is such a man of his word.
BB, threats can be implied, as for example Bryan's threat to Sean in Hawaii. Your saying that bloggers are being put on a list by the DA implies that you are reporting bloggers to him. There is just no other way you could know that that is going on. If you have a different reading of your own comment, please explain it.
BB said..
lets not forget Dewayne and Albert were Cobra customers and supporters. Albert said himself he bought EPD coz the model on cover (Sean) looked like he was 15.
That speaks volumes to me.
Anyone else care to admit to buying Cobra Videos?
July 14, 2008 8:43 PM
I have never demonized anyone who has bought or watched a Cobra Video
July 14, 2008 9:16 PM
BB, I probably did misread the first post. You are calling people hypocrites for being Cobra customers and later besmirching the reputation of Kocis, correct?
If that was your intent, and not the demonization thing, I'm sorry. But I also don't agree -- I abhor many of the things I've found out about Bryan's character and his activities, but still can enjoy the videos that have proper legal paperwork backing them up. I don't see a contradiction or any hypocrisy there at all.
BB, if you saw my deleted "double talk" comment, that was not meant to post, and I amended it as you can see. Please ignore that.
"Your saying that bloggers are being put on a list by the DA implies that you are reporting bloggers to him."
it implies nothing. what you assume is your assumption.
someone else mentioned knowing about the list. that person has never been wrong.
i reported serious threats. knowing the history of those making them left me no other choice. if you do not like that, take it up with those stupid enough to make serious direct threats to a stranger online.
That is a crime by law and has serious consequences for the guilty.
"Your saying that bloggers are being put on a list by the DA implies that you are reporting bloggers to him"
Actually I think it may have been me that said that.
While visiting Luzerne County, a source told me that the DA's office was compiling a list of blogs related to this case, along with it's owners. It was told to me as more of a 'watch out' statement more than anything... hence my reason for saying the same to everyone else.
I have nothing to be afraid of... everything that I've posted has been made public information by either the PA DA, or the VA DA... no worries here.
The blogger who claims to be unidendifiable claims at the same time to be threatened.
Sounds like paranoia. Sadly, it is incurable.
Or he didn't make up his mind.
300! :-)
300
Let's hope it doesn't end up like the movie. ;)
Let's hope it doesn't end up like the movie.
That's a threat. That clearly is a threat. I should report you to the authorities.
Whoa nelly, lookie at this!
http://handjtrial.blogspot.com/2008/07/b-false-accusations-against-robert.html
"That's a threat. That clearly is a threat. I should report you to the authorities."
Huh?
Sarcasm attempt.
Huh?
Hey, I too want to cry "threat" and "report to authorities". Take me seriously! Please?!?
"Whoa nelly, lookie at this!"
Wait 'til you see the rest. :)
brynawel said...
Let's hope it doesn't end up like the movie.
That's a threat. That clearly is a threat. I should report you to the authorities.
Well, I thought it was damn funny, Brynawel!
"Well, I thought it was damn funny, Brynawel!"
Guess I appear to lack a sense of humor... my apologies... I'll try to lighten-up. ;)
Some of the information is missing from the Prosecutor's statement clearing Sean and Grant. Far more was spelled out by the prosecution. The missing portion details the extent and kinds of cooperation the two men gave the police and prosecutors.
PC, as you said to me, no need to apologize. I think you have to obsessively read the whole thread to get it, so it just proves you've got better things to do!
Thane, that's very interesting indeed, and may answer my lingering questions. Do you think you could repost that in the thread with the "all clear" post (it's now the first post) and explain in a bit more detail?
Brynawel said, "Actually, "Brynawel" is an alias,..."
That is true but enough of us know your real name. Also I know where you are and where you live. I know what you look like and what you were wearing when you were photographed. Keep in mind that I am Bi and not afraid to use it. :)
Now do you feel threatened?
Madame said, "I hate to tell you but it is seen through the eyes of the writer,.."
Which in this case is also called 'a historian' because he is in fact telling 'his story.' Historian are not always eye witnesses but in this case we are lucky because he is."
Madame continues, "only the writer writing what they are writing can tell the story the way they do,.."
I get it. It's like a first person account of the actual events of an event can only be told in the first person. Good thought, duly noted.
Then Madame continues, "and no two people will see it the same way. Does not mean there is no other version."
I've heard of that. Two people watch a traffic accident and one sees a green car hit a blue car from the north. The other witness sees a blue car hit a green car from the south. Same accident but two versions of the events. Understood.
Curiously though, in this case we only have two witnesses. One wrote a clear description of the events and published that description. The other witness had no objection to the first description. He did not, could not and would not disagree with any part of the description of the events of that day.
Of course I have only followed events in this young actors life loosely and from a great distance so obviously I may have missed something. Madame, could you please provide a link to this other version you refer to? Maybe Jim, would you be so kind as to publish this account written by this previously unknown observer/participant?
Love from Texas, Albert
It's like you (and Winston Churchill) said, Albert: History is written by the victors.
Now do you feel threatened?
Oh yes! You are doing it right!
I will sneak it to DeWayne!
DeWayne?!? DeWahayne! ... Damn, those tacos again!
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