What happened in a nutshell is this: It was revealed two days ago that blogger "Gluttony," author of the anti-H/J Sons of Sam Blog, is actually James Martin. He's the husband of Renee Martin, who for a time was the lead figure in the Harlow and Joe fundraising efforts.
But a far bigger bombshell was the revelation that Renee was no longer even remotely connected with Harlow and Joe; quite the contrary, she had become a VERY enthusiastic pro-prosecution witness, who "basically sang like a bird" on what she overheard during 3-way prison phone calls with Harlow and Joe. As Renee pithily put it: "Harlow and Joe are guilty have known this for quiet a while, might have been the confessions on the phone that were the give away."
Renee's status as a Harlowite apostate came as a complete shock to most everyone. Myself included...although I must say, it was a most pleasant shock!
The DA seems to have been surprised by this development as well; the material witness papers drawn up before she came to Luzerne County last weekend seems to imply she'd be uncooperative; and according to Renee, authorities made very half-hearted initial attempts to contact her. Looks like everyone was taken aback on this (except perhaps PC).
The Martins' story was revealed in various comments yesterday, and is quite interesting. I'll try to outline it here; Renee and James, if I make any errors let me know, and I'll correct them ASAP.
The Martins (and the rest of the neighborhood) did not know Harlow and Joe that well prior to the SWAT raid. There was a general knowledge out there that the house was used for male prostitution, but as long as they weren't doing it out in the streets, a live and let live attitude seems to have prevailed. Traffic to and from the house was not out of the ordinary. The Martins' contacts with H&J during this time seemed limited to typical yard work issues, and occasional glimpses of them walking their dog around the cul-de-sac in daisy duke shorts.
Then came the SWAT raid, which woke up the neighborhood in the middle of the night with flash-bang grenades. The Martins (like everyone else in the cul-de-sac, apparently) assumed it was in regards prostitution activities.
Later, a mutual friend of Renee and H&J informed her of the true nature of the raid, and her belief in the innocence of H&J. Renee becomes convinced, and for a time became the point person for H&J legal defense fundraising efforts.
This state of affairs lasted until her participation in an illicit 3-way prison phone conversation with Harlow and Joe. During that conversation, while we do not know exactly what was said (and wont know until the next hearing on July 8-9), we do know she finds out that H&J were far from innocent. And that was her moment of epiphany; according to Renee, she ceased then and there to be a "Harlowite." In effect, she became of like-mind with her husband James, who never did believe in their innocence. According to James, the visitation of "Harlowites" to their home made him physically ill.
I assume she just drifted away from the cause at this point (and both moving away to Fort Worth?).
And after that, they just waited for the PA DA to show up. Both were secretly eager to cooperate, and perhaps would have done so sooner but for disputes over travel expenses.
And that about wraps it up. Not too much more to add, as a lot of details about H&J apparently cannot be revealed until the next hearing on July 8-9. They did, however, weigh in on the competing conspiracy theories out there. And thoroughly debunked both.
Again, as Renee pithily puts it: "Sean and Grant and Robert, who the hells cares about them, they didn't do the murder. Ok Clue, Joe and Halrow in jail for murder, robert sean and grant, FREE." And she does not stop there. According to Renee, what happened at the Vegas dinner with Sean and Grant was irrelevant to this case; and as for Robert Wagner, in what could possibly be the all-time greatest Kocisphere quote ever:
"As for Robert dont know where he was and dont care were he was. I am sure if he was at the murder scene he would be dead and not speaking at all at this point. Look at it this way if there was someone else in the house do you think they would be alive to tell it we are talking about Joe and Harlow here ok."And that's pretty much a wrap on the conspiracy theories. Harlow and Joe murdered Bryan, and NO ONE put them up to it. EEISM&B.
Among H&J few remaining online supporters, a general pall of silence reigns, showing they are in a state of shock too. Elm has said nothing. Jakester has said nothing; indeed, has apparently decided to take on other murder cases (and have a friend fix your credit too!). Preacher George, as is his nature, immediately panicked and deleted every comment he could get his hands on (no word on whether this was the result of Divine Providence or not).
Oh and last and certainly least, Kent Barclay promised us an interview with Renee (and her husband "Joe," LOL!), which seems rather unlikely at this point as Renee publicly told him on this very blog yesterday to "piss off." LOL!
And...I think that covers it! Have I missed anything important? If so, let me know!
Update: Oh yeah, just like yesterday, I am more than happy to have my blog serve as a Q&A forum for the Martins, if they so desire!
Update 2: Just a reminder on a long-standing policy of mine. Which I am going to stick to, as a matter of principle...it has served me well, I think.
Update 3: Yet another enterprise touched by the hand of Kent Barclay ends in ignominious failure. Funny thing about this death-by-association is that it happened three days ago, and no one really noticed or cared about it until now.
Update 4: Wow. Read the comments too...
Update 5: Blake aka "The Jakester" engages in censorship! For those who missed it...you wanna see the comment he deleted? Stay tuned for my next post (tentative title: "Truth, Lies and Blakester"), where it will be re-posted and revealed! In addition to a few other observations of mine, appropriate to the occasion...LOL! Oh, this is gonna be FUN... :-D
150 comments:
This about summs it up exactly on my part, no bitches and complaints here, good job here.
Yes, I would say it has been a shocking couple of days.
Very glad to see Renee and James.
It is [beyond] mind boggling to think of what has happened to this case in the last few days.
I mean is it a matter of hours before somebody gets a deal?????
or is there just no deal offered??
[as jim has said before]
yesterday was a good day :)
Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:
1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.
2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.
3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.
So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).
I see that the unmentionable one has amended his site to identify Renee's husband simply as "J.", not "Joe." The idiot can't even plagiarize correctly.
prof said...
I see that the unmentionable one has amended his site to identify Renee's husband simply as "J.", not "Joe." The idiot can't even plagiarize correctly.
Atta boy prof get him good.
recording of phone calls in MA is ILLEGAL without TWO PARTY consent.
Renee is in a good position to file an offical complaint against Kent Barcley due to his claim that he recorded their phone conversation.
MA takes this law very seriously.
Jim, did you get your soiled jammies back from the cleaners yet. Just want to make sure that you want to come out and play again tonite. I see that BB is willing.
Jim quotes, "As for Robert dont know where he was and dont care were he was. I am sure if he was at the murder scene he would be dead and not speaking at all at this point. Look at it this way if there was someone else in the house do you think they would be alive to tell it we are talking about Joe and Harlow here ok, Renee's reply to Rob.
Thank you for quoting the answer to my question for Renee.
Jim--
One item that I will point out that is alluded to in your main post and that would be Renee's designation as a material witness and a bail bond imposition which does compell her appearance and weekly checkins with the PA state police. Obviously, this implies the prosecution is somewhat skeptical for whatever reason or reasons and on their investigation. This factor does not get resolved until July 8th.
"All time greatest Kocisphere quote"
Agreed!!!!
IMO, another "classic" that will be unforgettable-
[the scene- it is Weds. nite, a bomb has gone off at pc's blog]
it is over - the dust settles, a peep from George..
"Renee, who are you?"
I mean, c'mon- can it get any better than that?
"I am the executioner Georgie Porgy, you want to be next?"
-what could only be better IMO, is Georges expression when, the next day, on the phone he is like,
"Harlow who is Renee?"
Another for me,
Kocissphere Shock for Shock Value-#1-
Finding out that Gluttony was Renees husband [James]
Oh yes, that Shocked me-
When it came to Gluttony, I thought he was very smart, but his posts seemed very pro death penalty. I never thought that he was pro Harlow until I began suspecting that you thought so jim.
But again, just for Shock, that was it for me. Much more than Renee coming out. That was cool, but did not shock me to the extent Gluttony did. Wild week and all good!
I'll be there on 07/08... and will report. Should be entertaining.
"Just want to make sure that you want to come out and play again tonite. I see that BB is willing."
I'll be around, but more sporadically than yesterday (more jammie dry cleaning to do!).
VJ said
Oh yes, that Shocked me-
When it came to Gluttony, I thought he was very smart, but his posts seemed very pro death penalty. I never thought that he was pro Harlow until I began suspecting that you thought so jim.
But again, just for Shock, that was it for me. Much more than Renee coming out. That was cool, but did not shock me to the extent Gluttony did. Wild week and all good!
I was never ever ever pro harlow lets get that one straight.
BB, you asked this over on PC's but because of his strict rule against DK's name, it is better to answer here. I hope you are referring to the parody site. (v.j. is a co-contributor.) That one is,
http://kruezeratnight.blogspot.com/
The daytime version of that is no longer operational.
While I am on the subject, you may wish to read a short expose by DexxJones. It can be seen here,
barclay-ahttp://dewayneinsd.blogspot.com/2007/10/dexxjones-writes-about-kent-ka.html
Hope that is what you are looking for.
rob,
This is my opinion of Renee, what she was up against, what she believed, and where she is now.
I am explaining my opinion because it makes very clear sense to me.
Renee believed in Harlow and Joes innocence, she was going to [and did] work hard to help, she did what she thought was the right thing to do in helping her friends.
She then came to find out that she was wrong, admitted exactly why and went to the authorities knowing perhaps there may be consequences. Would I have done what renee did had I believed in the innocence of my friends, yes.
Is that right - not necessarily.
My very first impression of Renee when I corresponded and I have mentioned this before is that she was a very, very nice lady. I was perplexed she could be so candid regarding the escort/porn stuff as she seemed a "mother type" caring for the well being of Harlow. Maybe that is my Catholic upbringing - I just could never see anyone around me [familywise] dealing with that.
Then as the year progressed I started to believe that Renee had ulterior motives regarding Harlow and Joe and that made me think that she was dishonest. This could be because we heard nothing for so long.
I am not surprised at all about Renee coming out with the truth and my very first impressions of her were the right ones!
Just wanted to explain my perspective. :)
Perfect, thank you Albert, it is what I was looking for.
We are moving back to Boston very soon. My camera is charged and ready. I know exactly where to go.
Fun times ahead. He had it coming. It is long overdue.
Vj, re Renee, I agree 100%.
It takes someone with lots of er spunk(?) to do what she did.
She is to be congradulated and deserves support from all seekers of truth at this time.
Anyone who taunts her at this point has serious issues.
gluttony said
"I was never pro Harlow"
I know that james- definately was not implying that you ever were. I am not sure there is anyone that was and is LESS pro Harlow! :)
Oh bb you will love Boston, it is te most beautiful city, cultural- the change of seasons are breathtaking. I grew up there, miss it and would love to move back. Maybe someday- good choice you are making! :)
VJ said
I know that james- definately was not implying that you ever were. I am not sure there is anyone that was and is LESS pro Harlow! :)
I was just making sure or maybe i miss read what you said, sorry
Vj
I was also brought up catholic but my parents were more open minded, we were all brought up to believe that you should help anyone that needs a helping hand no matter what it is. But not to allow someone to take advantage of you.
Believe me there were no ulterior motives besides to see them get good lawyers to represent them if they were innocent and they were being cased up, but this was not the case. They were not cased up, they committed this crime and the truth needs to come out. No matter what you faith, or belief the truth should always prevail/ And the truth will prevail in this case. AS for gain for anything from them, there was nothing to gain, the house was given to a realtor to sell and the lawyers would of gotten that money the contract stated any excess funds at closing to be split 50/50 between joe and harlows attorneys. They had nothing else, there website passed hands several times and there wasnt much there anyway.
So what would i have got the million dollar house, not, the million dollar website or the million dollar escort business that was shut down last june.
So they had nothing and needed help , sometimes people can help others with no personal gain. I know this is hard to understand, but i would help anyone that needed it , but now i would think twice about helping someone in that position again. And what if the next person really is innocent, makes everyone look guilty, and there are some that are innocent and charged with crimes.
And we should not matter what our faith always show compassion for others when they are down and out. But the others should be truthful and not lie to fit there needs. This is a very hurtful thing to do to someone that tries to help you.
Now you have it.
Gluttony,
No problem- I don't think that I finished my whole thought on that first comment. But I definately thought you wanted to see Harlow and Joe see justice in the form of DP.
It was/is a strong blog [kind of gave me nightmares :)]
I have a very high respect for you and what you have been through!
Albert or Jim - Just wondered if you can steer me to the link Albert posted at 3:16, something by Dexx Jones on DeWayneinsd blog. Once again I tried that URL every which way and it did not cooperate! Thanks! (Also just tried looking for that post, to no avail.)
Jim, you know I'm basically a disinterested outsider when it comes to H & J -- not meaning no interest, meaning no biases or predisposition one way or the other about the case. So I would like to make one observation about the goings on of last couple of days re Ree:
Harlow defenders may be in a blue funk, to say the least. But I predict that interest in the case and maybe even coverage of it will dissipate in the coming period, not only because of a lull before trial, but because it now just seems like a stupid, heinous murder with no mysterious conspiracies attached to it, and thus is just not as interesting to outside parties as it may have been before.
Sure, it does still have its points of intrigue, and I'm sure some facts that haven't been known before will come to light. BUT it just seems to me that when you boil it all down, everybody already knows most of the prosecution's case, so from here on out no real bombshells are in store.
Not trying to steal your mojo by any means, I'm sure you'll still make whatever does happen interesting for your readers!!
Those were just my thoughts, based on very little real knowledge, of course.
renee,
Thank you for responding.
I agree with you and am quite like you in many ways.
Uncannily so!
I know there was nothing in this for you except helping those two.
I know that for a fact.
The distance that you were willing to go to help H&J is probably farther than most others would go.
I agree that it is a shame that you may think twice before helping someone else in very dire straits.
I just want to be clear, I was wrong when [during the midst of this] I thought there were ulterior motives on your part.
There is an amazing strength that seems to run through your household. :)
And oh, yes, -- my parents were definately not open minded- LOL!!
Love them to death but open minded in that department - no.
Will, you are right. I can tell you for a fact interest in the case has dropped over time, as new revelations have made this case less a mystery.
I am sorry that is not working. The site is up, my link may be corrupted. It is again
http://dewayneinsd.blogspot.com/2007/10/dexxjones-writes-about-kent-barclay-aka.html
Also try going to
http://dewayneinsd.blogspot.com/
And then look along the right column to the final category of,
‘Pathology of Perversion’
Then slide down to the fourth item from the bottom. It is titled,
The Truth about Damon Kreuser (DexxJones)
I apologize for the problems. This is why D runs the sites.
I suck. :)
"Oh bb you will love Boston"
Boston is my US hometown. Cambridge to be exact. Been gone for a few years, cant wait to get back home :)
jim said...
Will, you are right. I can tell you for a fact interest in the case has dropped over time, as new revelations have made this case less a mystery.
Well then Jim you will just have to spice the shit back up and pull some interest back into it, i am sure after the july 8-9 hearing there will be alot of activity on this. All the information to come at that hearing should be good.
I for one and not sure why everyone is making such drama out of Robert Wagner, Sean and Grant? Can anyone explain this to me? Doesnt seem to me that the police believe they did anything and I am taking this on the fact that they are free and not in jail.
Renee that's an excellent question! The short answer is, it has to do with the politics of the gay porn industry.
There are people with agendas out there, who want to tear down people in the industry and destroy their careers to satisfy long-standing personal feuds. Sean, Grant and Robert are all in the crosshairs of one of those feuds.
Using innuendo to inflate those targets from mere bystanders in this murder to participants was a convenient way to score points in their ongoing war of words.
As a matter of fact...I'd say this is another factor in the decline in interest in this case, that is slightly different from "lack of mystery."
I would say that interest in this case has waned, in direct proportion to the certainty that Sean, Grant, and Robert are not criminally liable.
The people who were more interested in the feud than the murder have slowly drifted away.
Jim - Of course you're right about the personal agendas, BUT let's not forget (as I learned in the Gross article) that Grant did call himself the Cobra Killer!
Yeah, that was part of the feud-lore.
Jim--
This was raised in the "Long Hot Summer" strand. PC settles the issue and I do believe this will advance understanding.
PC said...
Quoting Rob,"As for Cedric Harris, we talked and he admits it as well as talking with you. HE WAS PART OF THE 3-WAY COMMUNICATION SCHEME."
BB stated, "There are 3 reasons I know this is a lie. It is 3 added lies to your already huge number of lies."
PC replied, "Actually, it's not a lie. Elm did in fact converse with Harlow and Joe after their incarceration... via 3-way calling."
Saturday, June 07, 2008 8:32:00 AM
"Grant called himself Cobra Killer."
To be a bit more thorough about that moniker, Grant coined it out of exasperation at Robert Wagner's ongoing and unsubstantiated tirades of being an accessory to Kocis' murder, a point which Renee lays in the dust. Why is Cobra Killer any different than BB as anyone's handle?
As for a feud, I buy that only to a point. That implies that Cobra Video is a going concern, an active business venture and it is not. Looks to me that Sean and Grant's venture is a going concern. The nature of the new studio does not cover Cobra's marketing niche and won't. So if we are going to wax poetic here let's detail this properly.
This is related. Wagner recently quoted my statement of December 30, 2007. In that statement, I very clearly say that he is not involved with the MURDERERS. That does not, and will not preclude his status as a material witness which is a point that PC also knows.
I will state the obvious. Anytime anyone from Jody Wheeler to Julien questioned BB's statements and asked for facts, a heap of personal attack followed. Jody only occasionally comments in the blogs now. That is a pattern that is ongoing here. I won't be retreating.
" Rob said...
"Grant called himself Cobra Killer."
To be a bit more thorough about that moniker, Grant coined it out of exasperation at Robert Wagner's ongoing and unsubstantiated tirades of being an accessory to Kocis' murder"
Actually, it pre-dated the murder. It was a response to the copyright lawsuit I think.
That sounds like bad news for Elm.
He should have known better.
renee said,
"spice the shit back up"
LOL!!
It is not going to be dull with you around renee! :)
Before you came out, it was getting a bit dull.
I had noticed this strange sort of pyschic thing going on where 2 people would post the very same thought at the same time and did not know it until it was published.
I think we have been doing it so long our thought processes started to get very similar. Weird!
Now it does have a different "bang" to it.
Regarding elm,
I do not know how others feel but I feel it would be a good time for him to come out- get it out of his system and move on.
Just dropping from site, isn't going to be good for him.
These are just my opinions,
I do not think that he meant to do harm,
I think he is a good guy,
Why he got caught up like he did?
Don't know.
But it is not like he is dk or anything like that.
Come back elm!
Jim - You're right, "Cobra Killer" was Grant's screen name in an online forum during the feud with Kocis, per Gross in Out:
"Soon the feud was tooth for tooth. Juicygoo.com became a battleground between Bryan, writing under the screen name 'King Cobra,' and Grant, who called his alter ego 'Cobra Killer.' "
V.J. said...
"But it is not like he is dk or anything like that."
Hey, you never know! Could be another alter!!
Rob said...
"Slobs agenda is to protect Sean and his angry CobraKiller. He fails miserably. Often happens to liars who have zero credibility."
Hey Robert Renee said Sean and Grant and Robert Wagner were not murderers. Wagner was included.
You have gone to great lengths to undermine me. You are material witness. That is a point that PC also knows.
As for poor little Elm Renee just said it. He had a source. Renee knows that because she was talking to Elm. I WILL MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR. ELM WAS PART OF THE 3-WAY PHONE SCHEME.
As for you Wagner, your entire blog is a joke in the light of Renee's statement to me. You made a claim for the Le Cirque dinner that does not pan out.
Both you and Elm have tried to rewrite history and were called on it.
You asked bloggers to join you on your blog the other night. Only you and Renee and Jimbo Gluttony showed up.
You don't exactly hold Chinchilla Jim in high regard because of the Harlow Apology--it undercuts your attempt at claiming as you just did here that Grant, the mongoose, somehow slew your boss.
All of us are tired of YOUR UNSUBSTANTIATED BULLSHIT AGAINST SEAN AND GRANT.
What you don't like is that I relate the truth of your witness status. Nothing changes that fact.
And that Jim is not too far afield Elm's ongoing tirades as well as yours.
THE FACT IS RENEE PULLED YOUR COMEDY ROUTINE OF SEAN AND GRANT PUT JOE AND HARLOW UP TO KILLING KOCIS IN THE MUD. DIDN'T HAPPEN MED SCHOOL DROPOUT. THAT SIMPLE. WOW. I AM IN THE COMPANY OF JODY WHEELER, DEWAYNE, ALBERT, JIM, AND PC AND I WOULD ADD RENEE IN SO FAR AS THE EXTENT OF HER KNOWLEDGE IS CONCERNED.
As for you, 10 minutes on the stand, well that totals the ledger.
Jim can you make sense out of this?????
Renee,
Not making light of a serious situation :)
but-
The movie gets made-
who do you want to play you?
:)
In Jody's defense, he never did comment on the Kocissphere blogs that much.
Since 30 October his attention has been focused in large part on his new site, doorQ.com . In fact he has only commented on his own personal blog twice since October. The latest post was the end of March. He wrote,
"Oh, it so needs new paint...
Heh.
I just took a wander around the site.
I sooooo need to repaint, re-upholster, modify, update, and otherwise bring current everything on here.
doorQ.com though... such an enticing, and selfish, lover.
Things here will just have to wait"
That's it.
Elm is a good guy. We have been in phone contact for over a year. He has taught me a few computer tricks and seems to really believe what he writes about. Because we talk behind the scenes, I do not oppose him in public. I like Elm.
Will G--
Glad to see you are getting up to speed. Your education on the matters raised is not complete until you read Sean's 4-part series "A Siren's Tale" which was originally featured at Jason Curious and is now available at Dewayne in San Diego. I would also recommend reading as many main strands as you can at the old Brent Corrigan Online site. Much of what was in other blogs Sean raises first. It covers the civil suit time period than the events just prior to the murder. Finally, read Jim's series detailing Sean's relationship with Chris Henriquez (one time boyfriend and louse who set Sean up in interviewing with Bryan Kocis.) That information is basically the primer for all of the events.
For the longest time, BB liked to claim Sean as being of age during the time period he worked for Cobra. That issue is now settled and has faded from BB's radar screen in the face of overwhelming facts presented by many in these and other posts.
will,
You are correct!!!!:)
Rob,
The CobraKiller came up with that name long before the murder. It had nothing to do with RW.
I know this to be fact as do most other bloggers.
You were not around back then like the rest of us.
Will,
The CobraKiller set up a dedicated blog titled "The CobraKiller". His biggest mistake was that. It detailed how he was going to KILL Cobra and Bryan Kocis. I think this was blog was around for at least a year before the murder.
Jim:
I am shocked Elm took part in 3-way conversations.
Is it a surprise to you? Did you know about this?
"Jim can you make sense out of this?????"
I haven't tried. :-)
" BB said...
Jim:
I am shocked Elm took part in 3-way conversations.
Is it a surprise to you? Did you know about this?"
I've heard rumors, but even still, I must say I am surprised by it.
Rob, thanks for the info. I feel like even if I tried I would never really catch up. The info bb supplied about Cobra Killer's blog, for example: I thought I knew the score then I read that! It's like a rabbit's hole.
Another thing I am hopelessly clueless about is the blogosphere and bloggers' agendas (or lack of them). I am not even going to try and figure that out. I will make one observation: All of you commenting here are really doing so for the benefit of each other and NOT for anyone who might stumble upon this site. This is not meant as a criticism, just a fact you MIGHT want to keep in mind. I, for one, cannot make heads or tails out of most of your posts to each other.
For example: Is Rob being accused of being Robert Wagner? Or is it bb?? I have seen both assertions in these threads, I believe.
And Rob, which one is YOUR blog????
V.J. said...
Renee,
Not making light of a serious situation :)
but-
The movie gets made-
who do you want to play you?
Nobody leave me out of the movie, dont want any part of it unless the victims family is getting the money
I want to apologize to Renee for the comments I made about her on PC's blog. After reading Jim's blog, I believe that Renee has seen the error of her ways ... perhaps hearing it from H & J's own lips.
So I wish her the best ... especially on July 8th.
Sounds like Renee could be the next "Desperate Housewife". This would actually make a good storyline for DH. Go Girl!
I'd like to know what back-up there is to prove this 3-way calling claim.
rob,
there you again trying to pull others into you BB crap. get it into your head, nobody is interested. your lack of credibility took care of that.
BB--
Grant came up with the sign of the mongoose which sure honked you and Kocis off.
Once again, Renee buried your pet theory of Sean and Grant killing Kocis and the new wrinkle: systematically destroying Cobra Video. Kocis destroyed himself with his federal case against Sean, and at some point, in a deposition, gave up his treasured personal assistant and BF, Robert Wagner.
BB writes "It detailed how he was going to KILL Cobra and Bryan Kocis." Ah, BB gets around to his real purpose, beating the dead horse.
"jim said...
"Jim can you make sense out of this?????"
I haven't tried. :-)"
me neither :)
Blogger jim said...
As a matter of fact...I'd say this is another factor in the decline in interest in this case, that is slightly different from "lack of mystery."
I would say that interest in this case has waned, in direct proportion to the certainty that Sean, Grant, and Robert are not criminally liable.
The people who were more interested in the feud than the murder have slowly drifted away.
I would agree Jim GayPornWood is full of Drama Queens who ate up the crime story angle Last Year! (look at the continued talk about Nicolay Petrov the bumbling cant hit her with a barn door hit man)Take away the Gay porn angle and interest has skidded!
As for Harlow and Joe I think it has become very apparent that they were essentially all flash and no substance which means the more you learn about Joe and Harlow the less enthralled you become.
The Trial at this point will be the only remaining subject of interest until sentencing.
DeWsyne is sure right about one thing: The more you know about H & J the LESS interested you are in this whole thing. They are SO stupid! Incriminating themselves in a 3-way call with a SUPPORTER of theirs listening in is only the icing on the cake. You have to wonder about their mental fitness to stand trial. I only say that half facetiously.
However, DeWayne, you are a bit Corrigan-centric when you say his being nothing but a witness removes the gay porn angle. This case is still ALL about gay porn! Remember Boybatter.com? The million-dollar goldmine H % J wanted to produce with BC? Cobra Video??
I just hope if this trial does get any amount of mainstream publicity that it doesn't taint the entire industry!
Will G--
BB is a persona of Robert Wagner who worked for Bryan Kocis, the murdered man.
I use my first name, Rob. I chose to comment only so no blog. I believe in Sean and Grant. Enjoy Dewayne's insights, humor, and his blog and Albert who is quiet, most observant and wise; appreciate strongly Chinchilla Jim's blog which is like talk radio; admire PC's post and think he should get a journalism award for his work; and though he might find this hard to believe, I actually think BB is relevant even if I do stridently disagree with him.
Thank you for asking.
"This case is still ALL about gay porn! Remember Boybatter.com?"
Yeah, but the thing to remember is..H&J were never more than bit players in the gay porn world. They were UTTER unknowns before the murder.
The thing about online porn sites like boybatter.com is, you CAN make a lot of money, but it is a VERY crowded field.
And by all indications, boybatter was NOT on course to break out of thde pack in any significant way. If you look through my post archives I have a post entitled "The Trouble With Boybatter" which essentially concluded, based on it's lukewarm reviews, it was NOT a huge moneymaker.
Hence the motive for the crime: To hook Brent Corrigan, and thus propel boybatter.com through Brent's name recognition into the big leagues.
Lets try to steer away from identity speculation please.
I know it's been all the rage lately elsewhere (LOL) but I still want to avoid it here, if possible. Thanks.
Will, you intrigue me. Why are you here? As you say, “All of you commenting here are really doing so for the benefit of each other and NOT for anyone who might stumble upon this site.” Will, this is not an “agenda” driven conversation so much as a personal conversation. Each of us here has an emotional or principled reason for being here. We have been commenting amongst ourselves for some time. PC gets the local scoops, Jim adds the brilliantly humorous angle, DeWayne must be careful because he is too close to the situation, I am likewise careful because I am close to DeWayne, Brynawel is our mutual girlfriend in Berlin, Rob, Elm, Geoff Harvard, Prof and many others are readers/bloggers that keep up but do not comment as frequently. We welcome those with an interest but there is so much background here it is difficult for anyone to step in as you have.
Rob is correct in his advice to you, A Sirens Tale is a fundamental background document here. Written by Brent, originally in 6 parts, only the first four parts are public. His lawyers shut down the publication of the last two parts. Also the Blacks Beach tapes are critical for the current discussion. You can find those and many others along the right column of DeWayne’s blog. PC transcribed the Blacks Beach Transcripts for the Internet and they are also on his site. Others may have them as well.
Rob and I do not have Blog’s. I do occasional interviews with people that intrigue me and I contribute to DeWaynes blog. He is my partner.
I can well understand your frustration. As you said, “I, for one, cannot make heads or tails out of most of your posts to each other.” That is true enough. We know each other and have a degree of respect for each other. We also have animosities and relationships here. We very much welcome you or anyone but as you said, “even if I tried I would never really catch up.” No you wouldn’t but it is not required. Another functioning brain is so very welcome. BB and I will both wrap our arms around you for a group hug, even though we are on opposite sides of the isle.
Speaking of that, BB is the one that is believed to be Robert Wagner. Not Rob. Robert Wagner was a personal assistant to Bryan Kocis. Robert was also a ‘Cobra Boy.’ He is noted by his mild crossed eyes and tendency to post pictures of himself in European cities on his MySpace. BB is also suspected of being ‘Big Ben’ who is really a small sized guy but possible boyfriend of Robert Wagner.
Hope that is somewhat helpful. You can of course write in private if you need more.
Now we get to speculate about you. Are you the Will in Austin, are you some late comer investigator, are you in Falugia and just got internet connection, what is your dog in this hunt? Inquiring minds want to know.
Just caught your comment Rob, you are so sweet. Thank you.
After the first couple of months of this case, it was at the time when I was feeling H&J were wrongly accused. The time I spoke with my friend about the case, again he knew nothing of it, just what I presented. He had told me at that time that this case was as simple as it appeared, not complicated very simple.
I have been thinking about that,
I believe jim and others said this too-
but coming from my friend who was so out of this forum and the scene, his words came back to me hard.
It really is as simple as it seemed, a murder over greed.
Like you guys said, it isn't even really about porn,
greed- good old greed- old and simple motive!
Brent Corrigan, Grant, Robert Wagner- non issues.
Looking at the whole picture it throws me a little bit.
I complicated the shit out of this, from psyche evaluations, on and on and on and all these complicated reasons why it happened.
It happened for money and that is pretty simple.
That's OK.
Albert said...
"Now we get to speculate about you. Are you the Will in Austin, are you some late comer investigator, are you in Falugia and just got internet connection, what is your dog in this hunt? Inquiring minds want to know."
LOL! Albert, you're funny1 We have met online before in the JCA thread on the Derek and Romaine matter a little while ago. I am a regular commenter on JCA's blog, and other than that my identity is of complete irrelevance to any of the goings on here. I got drawn into the DK matter, an individual I was completely unaware of before, through his constant intrusions in the JCA threads. After getting up to speed on HIM, and hooking up with DeWayne's and your wonderful anti-DK site, I found myself being more drawn into the H & J matter than I had anticipated, probably because I also know Jim from JCA. I have been doing my best to catch up.
BUT I certainly know that it can seem obtrusive and obnoxious for someone like me to be prowling around here at this late stage. On the other hand, it could also be beneficial for you all to step back and look at things from an outsider's perspective.
Lastly, as I have already apologized to Jim, I did not mean to particpate in the speculation about people's identities. I was just using that as an EXAMPLE of how hard it is sometimes to penetrate the Kocisphere!
Albert - Forgot to thank you sincerely for the attempt to clear things up for me, and your offer to be of further assistance. That says a lot about you as a person that you would offer that to somebody you don't know -- or who could be an investigator with ulterior motives! Thanks again!
Your post before was helpful. Like I said, the only time I get hopelessly confused is when reading some of the posts you direct at each other, and that is only sometimes, to be fair. I should also explain that I find myself on this thread mainly because Renee had started talking about DK here, although I do like Jim's blog a lot.
And no, I do not live in Austin!!
Jim's "That's OK" is to me for some stupid comments that I have since deleted.
will g said,
"My identity is of complete irrelevence"
Oh no it's not, I happen to know you are quite the cutie!!!!
:)~
will,
i am not robert wagner. i do not know robert wagner.
before Bryan was murdered i was accused of being Bryan.
rob, albert and dewayne think differently on this.
most other bloggers know the truth.
And I don't give a fig! :-)
BB, I think of you as Cody Lockhart.
If you put my picture on your splash page I may change my mind.
:)
V.J. - Now I told you to keep these things private!!
(But of course you are correct).
Like you guys said, it isn't even really about porn,
greed- good old greed- old and simple motive!
Brent Corrigan, Grant, Robert Wagner- non issues.
Ok now that we have figured out the motive for the crime can someone without screwing up list all the players that actively played a part in the murder. Now you will receive a trip to paris for six months and a used maserati if you can hit this one on the head without goofing it up and you would be suprised who is on this list>
so for the vacation and the used masarati can you list all the active players in this murder... Now , now dont screw it up ok...
1. Joe
2. Harlow
Finished!
jim said...
1. Joe
2. Harlow
Finished!
No used maserati for you , but you do get the ride to the airport for the trip to paris, but no tickets
Renee, if you're there, howdy. I just wanted to ask you a question:
I don't think we even scratched the surface with you about Kent/DK the other night. I don't know if you know about DeWayne and Albert's anti-DK blog, but it's great, and I was wondering (on their behalf) if you might be interested in either having another discussion there or maybe even writing something yourself to be posted there? If you haven't seen it, the link is up above, Kruezer at Night. Thanks!
What no other takers but Jim? What a shame to waste a good vacation and one used maserati. I know that you all know more then you are telling
Jim, you forgot Bryan Kocis. He, "actively played a part in the murder." Not willingly would be my guess but a key part to be sure.
I hate trick questions but then I also have no particular need to go to Paris and I could not afford the insurance on a Maserati.
Yeah, I assuming the question "playing a part in the murder" is a narrow one: Criminal liability for the murder.
And not any of this "after the fact" stuff. I.e., pre-knowledge in the murder would occur.
AFAIK (K = "know") that's just H&J. But I could be wrong.
I suppose you could broaden the question to anyone and everyone who had anything to do with this case, but then the list would be massive; we'd start with the prosecutions's "385," add everyone who ever blogged about the case, and then quite possibly add 100s or so more...
Jim without a doubt you can count the players on your ten little piggies. Just think really hard and they will come to you easily. This really is not that hard of a question, Yes joe and harlow literally slit and slabs Bryan but who were the other players. Ten piggies minues two piggies leaves eight piggies to go.....
Now sum them up. The list of 385 does not play that much of a big deal in this. But some of them may be listed on there.
Heres a hint: Go back to the sons of sam and find The Dukes of Hazard post and then you will start to accumulate numbers quickly. then think of the only few that are missing off of that /
\This is so easy.
Albert as for winning the maserati I am so sorry that I forgot to tell the winner that the Kocis estate will be supplying five years of insurance with the car. Does this make this game more amicable to you. Free insurance...
LOL
Lozer if you dont come and do this interview i will get jim to do one with nanci grace , pc and myself dedicated to budfoxx , so either get your fat stanky ass over here and do the interview or we will be forced to let nanci grace free on you.
Jim can we please let nanci grace out of her office and let loose on damon
Two murder suspects (their designation until convicted at trial) and six accessories, or is that seven, a bail bond compells appearance and testimony of one--that's what the prosecution and PA state police state in the court proceeding on that matter and signed off by Judge Peter Paul Olszewski which is not of an integrity endorsement.
PC must be thanked for revealing the information about Joe "Captain Jack" Ryan, Mitch Halford, Nep and others.
The hearing on July 8 and 9 is the more germaine venue for anyone because both sides of the case test the evidence and testimony. The upshot is in the context of other witnesses with knowledge of the defendants, their business, and their acquaintances will be the test of how Renee's statements shake out. The two key witnesses of that proximity to the murder suspects will be Mason Banks and Justin Hensley. In that venue and under oath, and presided over by the judge, the testimony will be well tested--direct examination by the prosecutor and cross examination by two sets of defense lawyers.
ah yes, Cody Lockhart, a one time friend of Sean and his CobraKiller.
"Grant, had mentioned wanting to "get rid" of Bryan, going so far as to ask said friend if he knew any "cleaners." "It was a topic of discussion a lot when I was hanging out over there," he told me, "and Brent would get upset and ask him not to talk about stuff like that in front of people."
from JC.com.
Albert: splash page? dont understand this.
Hey BB--
You are a contradiction. Renee has stated that Sean and Grant and Wagner were not involved. Do you have proof to the contrary?
Otherwise, Sean and Grant stand vindicated.
Jim ,
I know this is rude ( what i am about to say ) but i would appreciate you posting it ok
i am shouting at you rob:
KISS MY FAT ASS, JABBA THE HUTT GO GET KENTIE AND BABS TO GIVE YOU A BATH , YOU STINK LIKE ONE OF KENTIES SHITTY DEPENDS.
Thank you Jim for allowing me to display my true feelings for both robbie and kentie.
And with that...I'm gonna put a lid on it!
No more personal attacks here vs. fellow posters...thanks guys.
Otherwise, Sean and Grant stand vindicated.
NO they dont robbie, i never said that , what i said was i had no opinion on sean and grant and whether did or did not do something to facilitate a murder. So please do not put words in my mouth.
As i said Jim i apologize for the laps will try to refrain from having that one again.
i love everybody :)
An observation only--
I can read as well as anyone. What is written here and from "The Long Hot Summer" is easily retievable. So Renee which of your statements should we look to?
This for one on this particular blog: Jim quotes Renee, "As for Robert dont know where he was and dont care where he was."
Jim are you on vacation today ?
Jabba, that is fine that you want to quote; This for one on this particular blog: Jim quotes Renee, "As for Robert dont know where he was and dont care where he was."
that is my personal opinion , not what i was told by converstaions with H & J , i never said that they told me anything i said that i did not care where he was . So does that clarify things Jabba.
Naw, just catching up on some work. So, I'm away from the blog from time to time this weekend.
Plus, I've been a bit lazy screening out the pointless personal attacks (although I am now bestirring myself back into alertness on that).
I guess I'd like to ask you a few more questions. Since what you discussed with H&J seems pretty much off limits until the next hearing, I guess I'll stick to "safe" territory such as the other characters in the drama.
Let's start with Barry Taylor.
We already got your general impression of him earlier. I guess in addition to that:
1) What kind of dealings did you have with him?
2) Do you think he ever at any point thought H&J were innocent?
3) Did he continue to play a role in H&J defense efforts even after he formally withdrew as their attorney after the arrest?
4) Were they indeed "clients" of each other (albeit in vastly different capacities)?
"Renee said...
ok so i wont tell you that harlow was having a fling with brent before grant and joe knew about it, remember now i never told you this. that it went on for months before they played inncoent about meeting each other. Now go figure that one."
hmmmm :)
A purely online cyber relationship, apparantly. I that what you are saying?
My gut reaction to this is: yawn.
Brent is a porn star. Harlow is an escort. Therefor, both their respective b/fs know that, by definition, they are in non-monogamous relationships.
Plus, Brent was recruiting Harlow as a BCO model...recruiting that had been going on for months...this is common knowledge, openly discussed in the Out and other articles. So, they are supposed to have real FTF sex anyways...that the whole point of the exercise.
So, OK. Is there another shoe that's supposed to drop? Because, right now, I'm scratching my head, wondering what the big whoop-de-doo is. Am I missing something?
In these circumstances, I'D FULLY EXPECT some sort of online flirting to be going on. So...?
That is my guess jim I dont know, That is all behind the scenes for me.
1) What kind of dealings did you have with him? Only a few phone converstations and one in person meeting.
2) Do you think he ever at any point thought H&J were innocent?
I think he really did, they did a pretty good bullshit story on him
3) Did he continue to play a role in H&J defense efforts even after he formally withdrew as their attorney after the arrest? supposidly he did not withdraw , supposidly he was told to get off the case of suffer charges being filed against him with the bar.
4) Were they indeed "clients" of each other (albeit in vastly different capacities)? That i am not sure of, i know barry and joe have issues with each other, dont know if this is why joe came up with the barry is a client story or if it was true. I am at a loss on this one. Probably a bit of both.
June 9, 2008 2:14 AM
In these circumstances, I'D FULLY EXPECT some sort of online flirting to be going on. So...?
June 9, 2008 3:08 AM
i believe from what i was told there was some online relationship between harlow and Peter pan but i dont know if it is true or not, like i said jim when it comes to peter pan and grant i dont know what to make of the whole thing. I really dont like that subject becuase most of my opinon would be based off of what was said from Harlow and Joe and i dont know if it was truth or a lie. That is the big problem when you lie to so many people they dont know whether to believe you or not.
Plus, Brent was recruiting Harlow as a BCO model...recruiting that had been going on for months... this was suppose to have been going on since around thanksgiving but harlow says that the relationship with brent was going on since the middle of the year before bryans death. IS it true maybe , maybe not. Who knows it could be another lie, or then maybe him and sean did have the hots for each other , we probably will never know unless it comes out at trial what the real relationship was between them if there was one.
jim,
when you get a chance, you may want to look at the q&a between bb and renee.
It was very interesting. I would love to know what you think about it when you have the time.
I have.
My impression is, it seems Brent got a pretty good picture of the dysfunctional relationship between Joe and Harlow, and was trying to stage an intervention on Harlow's behalf.
But then like Renee said, this is coming from Harlow and Joe, so who knows. May not even be true.
It'll be interesting if Brent confirms this angle or not. If it's true, I don't see why he wouldn't.
"4) Were they indeed "clients" of each other (albeit in vastly different capacities)? That i am not sure of, i know barry and joe have issues with each other, dont know if this is why joe came up with the barry is a client story or if it was true. I am at a loss on this one. Probably a bit of both."
Harlow maintained the story as well, in the Blacks Beach tapes.
They could both be making it up, but then you have to ask yourself "why?"
Which is tricky, when the people you are telling it to (Sean & Grant, and a random prison roommate) have very limited interest in the truth or falsity of the subject matter.
jim said...
I have.
My impression is, it seems Brent got a pretty good picture of the dysfunctional relationship between Joe and Harlow, and was trying to stage an intervention on Harlow's behalf.
But then like Renee said, this is coming from Harlow and Joe, so who knows. May not even be true.
It'll be interesting if Brent confirms this angle or not. If it's true, I don't see why he wouldn't.
June 9, 2008 6:36 AM
Jim as i said do we really know what the truth is on this matter. or will either party tell the truth on this matter. Needless to say we will never know what the truth is. Whether there was a relationship or not between them that joe and grant didnt know about. I wonder sometimes if we will even find that truth out at trial or if that will be a bunch of coverup crap. All i would like to see is the truth either way. No matter who is involved or who had anything to do this , just the truth to give the kocis family some closure.
Which is tricky, when the people you are telling it to (Sean & Grant, and a random prison roommate) have very limited interest in the truth or falsity of the subject matter.
But as Joe stated in jail he would make a million either way , maybe not now but when he gets out and sells his book about the whole thing. Joe has an agenda for everything he does and tries to make him self look like big man on the totem pole, this could of been a play on barry, do we know? I sure dont , just know what was said and dont know if it was said to cause issues for barry cause joe had a problem with him or to cause barry harm with his family and practive, that seems more like joe. Like i said dont know what to think about the whole thing. Barry seems like a nice guy but hell i dont know him that well, for all i know he helped with the crime. I just dont know.
Come to think of it, I should be having limited interest in it's truth or falsity as well...my prurient interests are getting the best of me by asking the question! :-)
" supposidly he was told to get off the case of suffer charges being filed against him with the bar."
By who?
More questions for you Renee, if you don't mind:
1) About how many people assisted the H&J fund financially?
2) How much was raised while you were there?
3) Who was the biggest non-family donor, and for how much?
4) A gay porn star Jason Ridge has said in the past that he helped, did you deal directly with him? If so, what was he like? Did he ever discuss his motives for wanting to help out? And what was his contribution?
5) Did any other legitimate (ie, non-Kent) figures from the gay porn industry ever offer to contribute, or otherwise contact you for information?
6) Did you ever talk with legitimate journalists (ie, non-Kent) such as Michael Gross about the story?
Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:
1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.
2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.
3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.
So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).
jim said...
" supposidly he was told to get off the case of suffer charges being filed against him with the bar."
By who?
i dont know who this is just what i was told,
jim said...
Sure Kent, you can post here under three simple conditions:
1) You use your real name (Kent or Kent Barclay). Not your "stage" name or any of your imaginary followers names.
2) You do not link, mention or refer in any way to any site you operate. You use your sites primarily to engage in criminal enterprises such as cyberstalking and extortion, and I will not allow my blog to facilitate that. You have harmed too many people in the past (Gavin Braun, Angel Skye, Joey Hart, Kevin Clarke, etc. etc. etc...) and I refuse to allow that blood on my hands in any way.
3) You will not otherwise misrepresent your status, wealth, living situation, influence in the industry, city of residence, or any other biographical detail of your life in any of your comments.
So under those very reasonable conditions...post away. I'm sure we'd all be happy to hear what a guy like Kent Barclay, an unemployed internet junkie couch-surfing rent free in his mom's Boston area welfare housing, has to say about this case (or any other matters covered here).
June 9, 2008 8:01 A
Jim we all know this wil never happen , kentie can never be honest and post under his name.
"Sure Kent you can post here"
LOL!!!
This is getting to be a daily thing with him!
I have a prediction-
I know it is not an original prediction- but it feels [to me] like it is going to happen-
This is going to be over this week or next week - tops.
It is going to end uneventfully-
just end with a deal-
Again I know this is not an original thought- but there is too much on the table, and wouldn't the state rather not go through an expensive trial?
again just my prediction- this week -or next- latest.
If Kent does not like the rules, he can always send me that "lawyer letter" he promised months ago.
That's assuming it was not an impotent hollow threat in the first place, of course.
Jim if I buy a house next to you is it still buy one get one free.
LOL, OK!
I picked that up off of yahoo news.
V.J. said...
I have a prediction-
I know it is not an original prediction- but it feels [to me] like it is going to happen-
This is going to be over this week or next week - tops.
It is going to end uneventfully-
just end with a deal-
Again I know this is not an original thought- but there is too much on the table, and wouldn't the state rather not go through an expensive trial?
again just my prediction- this week -or next- latest.
Vj your prediction would be a good one if one wanted to save ones life. I would hope one would get the good sense to go ahead and save ones own a$$ and tell the truth.
Lets just hope someone will tell all this week or next.
Jakester said you made an error on your blog what link is he talking about.
jim said...
LOL, OK!
June 9, 2008 10:
Jim i think you have a thing for gluttony, you always answer him , hell i cant get a reply out of you unless they are forecasting snow.
" Gluttony said...
Jakester said you made an error on your blog what link is he talking about."
Who knows, he's always whining about something...one day it's those people who must be evil because they cooperate with police (YCMTSU!), today it's some links (?). I'll look into it if I have time...
Sorry Renne, been bizzy past couple days...
I do want the trip to Paris, and the car with insurance I really do. I have some time off this summer and would like to be included in any free tickets to Paris or even PA.
But so...anyway, those are some good questions Jim for Renee. And I really believe that Harlow was jotting down blog notes from cell, and that his writings were in fact what was appearing there for a while.
There was one guy who claimed to be forking out $25,000 for the down payment on Harlow's attorney. He ran the blog for a few weeks or months. He also did not know how to use spell checker. But they were trying to drum up business with that awful mug shot as the company logo on shirts.
I think the interest in this case is where Harlow's mind was at, his true feelings on all this mess. Is he in fact a sociopath and cannot feel any human emotion, so he has nothing factual to say about any of it? Scott Peterson is a sociopath and to this day can't feel thing, no guilt, no sadness, no loss, not even his own life lost. Harlow might be the same, can't feel real human emotions, and therefor can't even explain his side of the story. But I think he felt some strong lust for Brent, but it was based in a fantasy.
So after the trial, when it all comes down, I would like to see the faces of Harlow and Joe as the verdicts are read. That picture would be worth a few words.
I think a good article should be written and would be more interesting at that time.
But for now, as Renee has promised, there are some interesting things that are about to be brought to light at this next hearing.
And Renee, do you think those H/J letters posted at Kent's cruddy site were sent as jokes from H/J in jail, or complete are fakes?
We know Harlow is as gay as one can get, but he may have written them for sympathy, as evidence that he has changed his ways, found God, and is now worth early release. I think a few of Charles Manson's family members have also found Jesus, seen the light, and swear that they deserve release so that they can continue the Lord's good work and save young kids who have lost the straight and narrow path. It's an old trick, and sometimes works, unless you have Sharon Tate's sisters screwing everything up by flying in for the parole hearing at every chance that they get. C. Manson has finally stopped attending those hearings because he thinks it is a government conspiracy, and that is the only reason he has not been released. He screamed at them "YOU'RE NEVER GONNA LET ME OUTTA HERE" and threatened them as he was led back to his cell.
Anyway, is Drake a missing name in this cast? Am I closer to the trip or that used car?
quickysrt said:
And Renee, do you think those H/J letters posted at Kent's cruddy site were sent as jokes from H/J in jail, or complete are fakes?
No they are real, harlow and joe did it cause they were pissed off at kentie for lying, figured kentie would be dumb enough to put them on his site, and he did of course, they were hysterical. To have seen the light of there errors so quickly after being arrested,ya right. and crap is gonna fall from the sky today
We know Harlow is as gay as one can get
this should of been the dead give away that joe and harlow both set kentie up with that bad intel. like i said i never got a better laugh off of kentie and when i told him what the boys did to him, be was pissed off like you wouldnt believe that is when he went anit harlow and joe, then he went pro harlow again, i am kinda confused he has gone back and forth so much i dont know where kentie is now on this one, pro or anit harlow.
Indeed, we have seen the flip flopping pro Harlow, and then not pro Harlow.
The frame-up idea is quite fantastic and shows some imaginaion, but is so full of holes it's crazy.
But anyway, back to current events based in reality.
The truth can set you free as we were told over and over again. What was not often mentioned is that the truth can also get you death by injection.
So since Harlow is not picking up the tab, nor is his broke family, there is no reason to face the music too soon.
And Harlow thinks the entire world is watching this drama. So it should play out proper, with closure for everyone, or a meltdown for some I guess you could call it. Or maybe it could be called a crack-up. We'll see, and it won't be long now. I don't think the financial resources are they to keep this show going another six to nine months. The end game is coming as the money runs out.
And speaking of money...Renee, do you have any answers you can freely give for my various money-related questions, at "June 9, 2008 7:08 AM"?
jim said...
And speaking of money...Renee, do you have any answers you can freely give for my various money-related questions, at "June 9, 2008 7:08 AM"?
some jim but there wasnt much activity for donations for harlow he got more canteen money then anything and that stays on his books at the jail. People will donate to his canteen for some reason but not much to the legal defense fund. Needless to say there was never much there.
Update 3-
interesting.
I know this is twisted but it made me think of Pastor George.
As I was working last night with the t.v. on in the background.
All in the Family was on-
This line had me on the floor laughing.
Archie says
"Edith it sounds like you have been listening to the Rev. Feltcher again"
Edith-
"Oh Aah-chee,
Fletcher, Fletcher, - the Rev. Fletcher".
The writing on that show was way before its time. LOL!
"Boy, the way Glen Miller played. Songs that made the Hit Parade. Guys like us, we had it made. Those were the days! Didn't need no welfare state. Everybody pulled his weight Gee, our old LaSalle (a car) ran great. Those were the days! And you knew where you were then! Girls were girls and men were men. Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again. People seemed to be content. Fifty dollars paid the rent. Freaks were in a circus tent. Those were the days! Take a little Sunday spin, go to watch the Dodgers win. Have yourself a dandy day that cost you under a fin (five dollar bill). Hair was short and skirts were long. Kate Smith really sold a song. I don't know just what went wrong! Those Were the Days!"
Update 4. Yah, "wow" is all I can say at this point...much to absorb here...
Wow.
Jim,
Nice reading you had going on here. Would love to do it again sometime soon.
Likewise, Renee. And thanks! :-)
albert,
LOL!!
and after Edith corrected Archie he said
"Whateva"!
LOL!
I read jakester last night.
Interesting, he was a police officer?!
I am curious on your take of his post jim.
Hold onto you hat, v.j.! Like I said in Update 5, this is gonna be good...heh!
Jim--
An observation and I welcome your comment: Some of the information from over the last few days, presented as revelations, comes across at odds with the official record. Next, that certain persons, formerly working for the suspects, were in contact and according to one of them, "stirring up shit" to deflect from what happened, the wisest course seems to rely only what is stated and stipulated to under oath at the hearing.
Certain strands of information reported elsewhere definitely contradict the BBT's. What do you believe happens to the "they have blood on their hands spin"?
Then it occurs to me that the alleged online relationship between Sean and Harlow was stretched to imply a sexual one. In a sense, I have an online relationship with you, with PC, with Dewayne, with Albert, and with BB. To me this is a premise that does not take off any better than Howard Hughes' Spruce Goose.
Exactly Rob, stick to the facts as we know them, and let the rest fall by the way side.
Great idea you have!
"An observation and I welcome your comment:"
Okay...
"Some of the information from over the last few days, presented as revelations, comes across at odds with the official record."
Uh, in general I disagree. I think when looked at in the right perspective, the "official record" is being bucked up quite nicely these days. A few minor assumptions are having to be revised, but as a whole the past few days have been a TOTAL vindication of my prior opinions.
"...the wisest course seems to rely only what is stated and stipulated to under oath at the hearing."
Um, OK...
"What do you believe happens to the "they have blood on their hands spin"?"
Rob, it's a free country, and people can spin whatever they want to spin, as long as they care to spin it. Now, as to whether a "spin" has had any effect, lets look to the marketplace for the answer to that question, shall we?
http://www.jrlchartsonline.net/charts-gay.php
As of this moment, Brent's two recent videos (Porn Ultimatum and Summit) are at the number 2 and 4 postions respectively. It's been a solid 5 weeks of chart climbing for PornUlt, whilst Summit stomed the chart just last week, entering at #7! At this rate, Summit could very well take the summit next week.
Just to give a frame of reference, Jason Ridge's last Ridgeline movie (I forget the name) has completely fallen off the charts. It was a TOTAL box office bomb, reaching a high of #37, then drooping to #60 as of last week, and now...it's somewhere south of #100, that's all we know for sure, LOL!
So, there you have it! The market verdict on the various "spins" out there.
"Then it occurs to me that the alleged online relationship between Sean and Harlow was stretched to imply a sexual one. In a sense, I have an online relationship with you, with PC, with Dewayne, with Albert, and with BB."
Rob, are you hitting on me????? :-)
Bottom line, no pun intended, you feel like I do what matters is what is said under oath.
Now least I am misunderstood, I have said from the beginning that Harlow and Joe were grifters, a point that has not changed for me in the least. That at best they misrepresented events, etc. at worst lied about same is quite clear.
Okay, a scandal helps promotion and sales. Big whoop! But not exactly all that relevant. It is obvious that Sean and Grant have credibility with the PA State Police and the Luzerne County prosecutors. For example, if it had turned out that the Harlow face shot was stripped out of the email on their end, both men would have been sitting in jail. The BBT's are an obvious vindication of their integrity and noninvolvement in the crime except as a form of victims and one a target of greed.
Your statement about the attempted stretch at making the online back and forth between Harlow and Sean more than it is was "yawn." Makes for an iteresting comment.
I would strongly agree that Sean caught on to Harlow's dysfunctional relationship with Joe, and relating it to his own history, tried to offer advice to Harlow.
In so far as being the tremendous professional that you are, I do have regard for your integrity of character and purpose. ;)
"I would strongly agree that Sean caught on to Harlow's dysfunctional relationship with Joe, and relating it to his own history, tried to offer advice to Harlow."
Yeah, it seems likely Sean would have made parallels to his horribly disfunctional former relationship with Bryan during these months-long online chats.
Both Bryan and Joe were both legendary control freaks. Comparisons would have been unavoidable.
So, I would not at all be shocked if this turned out to be the case.
I think that is going to be fun too.
First Albert you sing the opening ditty to All In The Family so well!
;)
Blogger jim said...
"I would strongly agree that Sean caught on to Harlow's dysfunctional relationship with Joe, and relating it to his own history, tried to offer advice to Harlow."
Yeah, it seems likely Sean would have made parallels to his horribly dysfunctional former relationship with Bryan during these months-long online chats.
Both Bryan and Joe were both legendary control freaks. Comparisons would have been unavoidable.
So, I would not at all be shocked if this turned out to be the case.
June 11, 2008 8:41 PM
Jim one big difference Sean LEFT Bryan which is what you do when you need to save yourself AND halt a Destructive relationship!
Harlow could and should have done the same thing. I had a friend nearly a decade ago in a very similar relationship.
One day he just disappeared and his Control Freak BF went crazy looking for him. The behavior of the crazy BF in the aftermath validated the way the relationship ended.
We later learned the the sane BF who skedaddled moved to the midwest.
Drastic yes but if Harlow had done the same he would be looking at a very different future.
I believe Harlow was much more calculating, he wanted Brent Corrigan to REPLACE him in Joe's universe.
I think that was the deal Joe told Harlow you can leave but you have to get me a replacement!
Joe was a pimp not a Boyfriend
And the "star" prostitute (Harlow)was getting restless!
And instead of doing the right thing and skipping out on Joe he wanted to ensnare another young man into sexual slavery AND he had NO Qualms about killing a man in the process.
For that reason alone Harlow is deserving of our contempt (and the fact he is the killer not Joe)
Dewayne said,
alot!!!!
Dewayne,
IMO, that seems a bit complicated-
you know more about all aspects of this case as well as the players,
but that seems a stretch IMO -
I do not think the Harlow thought process could configure that plan.
To VJ
I see this. Harlow is actually 26/27 years old and for at least 5 years billed himself as 19 years old. Time catches up with all of us and Harlow was realistic. He knew he couldn't keep up the pretense of being an older teen male much longer.
It was pointed out that Harlow had argued with Joe about being the main moneymaker--hours on his back and other positions which sounds like burnout to me and I believe inferred by Dewayne's comment.
Relationship dysfunctionality makes as much sense as anything else.
v.j. said, "Dewayne,
IMO, that seems a bit complicated,..."
v.j. when your hands are tied, all you can do is speculate randomly. Maybe some facts get mixed in with some fiction. Who knows.
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