And to be frank with you all, I don't know WHAT to make of it at this point...you guys can form your own opinions:
Thursday, March 19, 2009
The Client List
OK, as I can foresee the comment below (actually a half-comment) easily has the potential mass to generate it's own gravitational field, I think it's prudent to go ahead and put it in it's own post, rather than leave it in the incongruous post below.
And to be frank with you all, I don't know WHAT to make of it at this point...you guys can form your own opinions:
And to be frank with you all, I don't know WHAT to make of it at this point...you guys can form your own opinions:
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44 comments:
...and I'll just get the ball rolling with this comment from the previous thread:
"GorgeousBoys said...
Jim - As I'm sure ANY adult webmster who trades with CCBill can tell you, no one has access to the member's credit card numbers.
When PC told me this he first explained that what he was telling me was between he and I only. I questioned him in great detail and even suggested to him he could be mistaken. He was very clear that it was CCBILL data AND other databases. When I told him that was impossible in regards to CCBill he insisted he had "inside people". I called him a "liar" point blank and he in turn said "FUCK YOU" and he disconnected from the telephone call.
And for the record, it was not "Mr. Conaster" he was speaking to, it was me. He damn well knows my name after logging over 9 hours with me directly over the telephone.
When you insult my intelligence I'll let you know quickly as was the case that night. And when you do, my confidence is totally soured.
March 18, 2009 11:53 PM"
Well, mulling it over a few minutes, seeing how there is no earthly reason GB would invent such an incident, we can safely deduce there are only two possibilities:
1) PC has a real H/J client list;
2) PC has a fake H/J client list.
Either way, seems to me this is an interesting development.
And in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, I'm killing any comment with even the wiff of a personal attack from here on out.
The signal to noise ratio needs improvement here right now, IMO.
no personal attack there jim :)
Yeah I know VJ...but you know where that question would inevitably lead... :-)
You are correct :)
I can assure you that PC has no list from CCBill. I'll be happy to have to have Ron Cadwell, CEO CWIE weigh in as to that allegation. In the meantime you can refer to their privacy policy: http://ccbill.com/html_forms/privacy_policy-english.html
Perhaps PC can weigh in here as well and clear this up for us.
Frankly, I have my own theory about all this and its really simple.
The only possible way I can see him having the ccbill information would be if the court issued an order for the information to be released and someone in law enforcement shared this.
I'll contact Ron and ask him if CCBill ever gave those records up.
And by the way, even Joe and Harlow, the owner of BoyBatter didn't have access to credit card numbers when the account was active nor does any other webmaster.
And if I do... so what?
Unless you're on the 'list', what does it matter.
"PC said...
And if I do... so what?
Unless you're on the 'list', what does it matter."
Well, because it's news.
I recall Justin Hensley on the stand, saying a US Senator was a client.
So, I can see how eyebrows are gonna be a raisin' now...
I found parts of the Melody Kocis comment - well, hard to digest.
Won't go into detail- her brother was brutally murdered, family has been through hell-
understand and sympathize - alot!
The talk of brent being the worst thing to happen etc.
forced me to want to ask her-
Who was the adult?
Who was the kid- enough said.
A few other tidbits-
her mentioning Cobra video-
Could have gagged on that comment-
How with a straight face [I imagine she has one] could she comment on "the business"
again- "the business" as if "that" business was a normal one- eek!
and of course her feelings that Bryan was just the best-
Well, I will leave that comment totally alone out of respect-
all in all strange-
then Renee coming in-
One big happy family-
eek- again!
Still don't have the answers to Renee - don't need to but why does she still want to be a part of all this crap.
And re: your other comment...I completely understand. :-)
"jim said...
"PC said...
And if I do... so what?
Unless you're on the 'list', what does it matter."
Well, because it's news.
I recall Justin Hensley on the stand, saying a US Senator was a client.
So, I can see how eyebrows are gonna be a raisin' now...
I'm sure it will be news... and news that some would hope wouldn't be told.
Oh well...
Well now we have an impasse. I do think that CEO of the billing firm should be contacted and asked to address this issue. Privacy, confidentiality, and just plain fairness demand the comment.
VJ that was a very good observation and something I tried to convey with some diplomacy at Jim's earlier thread in my original remark.
You posed the same set of questions that seemed a conumdrum to me.
"Rob said...
Well now we have an impasse. I do think that CEO of the billing firm should be contacted and asked to address this issue. Privacy, confidentiality, and just plain fairness demand the comment."
Rob,
were still waiting for your other 'proof'.
Peter
In case you haven't been reading closely your credibility is on the line.
But since you asked, it is well known that Bail Bond is not imposed by the judge unless the party bonded is arrested and arraigned Peter. Basic Crim Prac Pro in all US jurisdictions. Elm detailed the action.
Produce the first two pages of the Bail Bond Affidavit that you left out. But then you are left to reconcile the rap sheets of Renee Martin that Jim detailed earlier.
Sorry you relied on Renee's contradictory nature. Tis a shame.
jim said...
And in case anyone hasn't noticed yet, I'm killing any comment with even the wiff of a personal attack from here on out.
Ok Jim I am trying to live up to your guideline here.
Is it being implied here that evidence of a criminal act has; 1.)been tampered with, 2.) being withheld, 3.) maybe or maybe not not been withheld or tampered with, 4.) just plain doesn't exist in the constructive possession of PC ?
Well Peter I am still waiting for your proof as to why Sean and Grant were to be arrested at the time of the Suppression Hearing.
I've followed this saga now since the Juicy Goo days without ever posting a comment. But this thread concerning a "Client List" is just bizarre. As Harlow and Joe were running two distinct businesses, the client lists are totally different issues. The porn site was a completely legal enterprise. Anyone who subscribed to that site has every right to believe that their personal identity including credit information is secure. The other business is of a totally different nature. The suggestion that any of this information is to be made public suggests extortion. In regard to the porn site, the suggestion here of making that information public should be a warning to anyone considering a subscription to any similar site currently available. Is it really someone's intent to try and shut down all gay porn sites? The publication of credit card numbers raises other issues concerning the protection of personal credit accounts.
Rob,
Once again... and I hate to sound like a broken record... but please... show proof to your claims.
My money is still on the former U. S. Senator who used to be married to Elizabeth Taylor.
"GorgeousBoys said..."
'blah... blah...'
You know it exists... or else we wouldn't have had the conversation that we did... nor would you have gotten so upset when I mentioned it.
BTW Rob,
Before you have the audacity to question me... perhaps you should answer a few statements of your own... where's the arrest records? That would be a good start.
The suggestion that someone possesses lists of names and credit card numbers is a very serious matter. Federal Law requires that the owners of those credit cards be notified immediately that their credit card information has been compromised.
Anonymous - You hit the nail on the head. CCBILL doesn't process for escort calls and if they did their maximum amount that can be charged is $99.
If the clients paid for their escorting sessions there could be records of this.
PC - Do you care to share how you came into possession of these records ?
You can decline to answer the question if you feel that doing so may incriminate you in any way.
My primary disagreement is with the CCBILL member records - not that of your contention that you "also" had the escort billing information.
Just One Hot Minute will post tomorrow concerning CCBill's response to their records being made available.
Rob has had many months to show the arrest record he often rants about. To date he has failed.
The reason is obvious.
Rob has not once provided back-up... correction, he used Grant and Dewayne as his backup sources - yet they remained quiet.
So um yes, do not expect him to back-up his claims. Not one of them has seen the light of day.
"GorgeousBoys said...
Just One Hot Minute will post tomorrow concerning CCBill's response to their records being made available."
I'm sure that you will... and at this point you're probably in need of any traffic that you can get.
I wish you the best of luck.
Peter
No Peter you made a very serious claim against two men, Sean and Grant. You can answer about your proof of why they would be arrested.
re warner, u remember the old joke, elizabeth taylor pierced her ears and hit gravy?
does this come back to renee somehow, in that i thought she helped with the biz after the two then suspects were locked up (or was it before, I can only read, but never know the facts are :) )
so she would have been entitled to have any credit card records of the biz, either one.
and re the escort biz, i wonder, the escorts could have actually imprinted the cards at the call (as well as the john calling in the numbers to Harlow's hq). [What u got in that package, son? credit card imprint, sir]
typically u hold biz records 7 years and then discard; question, where and how do u discard? the police raided the biz, got the computers, and I'm sure anything that remotely smacked of anything illegal or promising for leads; and with as many agencies involved in the various aspects of the case in pa, va and the feds, lots of leaks there. i mean the source of any of this is endless, and not necessarily illegal to posses.
endless possibilites on the "high gov official" stated by the escort witness. I thought that was funny at the time, he's testifying on the stand under oath, says U.S. senators, and everyone just ducked their heads; that never rang true to me to this extent, Everybody wants to know. so where was the story? as someone said somewhere, it isn't a republican or it would be out there. and based on some of the quality of the testimony, i'm not sure the guy was wrong, and it's just a member of the house, whoeee, the suicide/murder in florida case....former head of christian coalition, whoeee again.
seriously, why was that part of the case not more fully deveoped?
note, it is only fair that someone gets to fuck our elected officials.
OK, I'm gonna step away from the computer for a few hours.
In the meantime, everyone who wants documents from someone else can make those requests either on their blogs, or on the others blog. 'Cause I happen to know everyone involved here does indeed have their own blogs.
That way, you guys don't have to wait my return to keep asking for documents. :-)
bb-
regarding "backing up claims"
Who has blood on their hands" Beebs?
C'mon, :) who??
tel us!!
Who???
Geoff Harvard said...
My money is still on the former U. S. Senator who used to be married to Elizabeth Taylor.
----
I dropped the hint on PC's blog that there was something going on at trial about a client, and the desire to protect that client from having his name mentioned out loud in court.
I kind of left it to PC, since he does have trial watchers, and insiders there with info.
But he never stated what the hell was going on. So I'll say it here.
Perhaps Grant can chime in with more details. During the BBTs being played back, the first hour or so the volume was very very low if you did not have phones on. I did not, but I had read the transcripts, and could make out key words that let me understand what point in the day we were on. It was like the court purposely did not want everyone to hear what was on the tapes. There reaches a point, very late but just before Harlow's description of the house, and seeing Bryan go down. After Joe and Harlow tell S/G that they are about bankrupt, and had to sell their $40,000 watch for 7g, Harlow says excitedly that he had a hour client that paid well, and that they are booking another four hours soon. Harlow names the client to S/G, but I could not make out the name. Right about that time two members of the jury are waving to anyone who can see, they take of the phones and say "we are lost". The attorneys gather up at the judge and decide how they are going to handle this. They all go back to their positions, and the judge instructs the jury to disregard any part of the tape (which they just heard) that is not in the transcripts.
This is because there is a name mentioned on the tape that the court does not want to bring into this scandal.
So within minutes, the break is called, and it is lunch time. When returning, I mentioned to one of the evidence/media guys there that we can't hear well at all. He tells me that, the audio quality it poor, I then told him that no, really it just is not loud enough. Then like a classic "Prick Faced" court jerk says "I told you the quality is poor! Then when the tapes were getting ready to roll once more, one of the other evidence guys has been told by Melnick (who I think was told by the Kocis' (during the lunch break) that they also can't hear), and turns the volume up some. Prick Face then reached over and turns it down again, but right before the tapes were started, the level was once again returned to acceptable level by the other guy who has been told to beef it up. I am now watching every hand that gets near that volume knob, and I see the pattern.
At least the louder levels came just in time for Harlow to tell us what it all looked like when he arrived at Bryan's house, who was on the phone, how he went down, how it felt, and that two towers and a laptop, business records.....All Gone!
There was an effort to keep those tapes from being aired in public. And they succeeded in keeping that name from being made public. But it was there on the tapes, I heard Harlow boast of this high priced four hour stint with a client, and saw the court judge/DA keep it out of the transcripts, and tell the jury to pretend it was never in there to begin with, forget it ok!
How Watergate-ish.
Assuming it the senator we are talking about...seems to me, all a reporter needs to do now is simply interview Justin Hensley, ask him who the senator is, and mystery solved.
un huh, and when Justin Hensley was on the stand and testified that there was a Senator and "government contractors" as clients, you know big money types.
That statement in court. I could almost feel the tension in the room silently saying "please don't go into detail here, we do not need anymore proof that Harlow had some A-list clients."
And with Hensley still in the military and all, it was kind of bold and ballsy.
That was very interesting Quicky,
Thank You!!
Forget the movie about this case. Let's just do the miniseries...
"Just One Hot Minute will post tomorrow concerning CCBill's response to their records being made available."
I haven't been able to find this today, but, then, JOHM is about as easy to navigate as Hemnesfjord at night with fog and no radar.
Geoff I will give Mark W a call I would assume CCBill has not responded yet.
To give you an update about the CCBill response:
I spoke with Ashley and Sean there at CCBill earlier yesterday afternoon. Ashley has already visited the post here.
At this point Sean and both Ashley have assured me that the BoyBatter account information in no uncertain terms as claimed would not have been made available.
Since the issue pertains to the possible compromise of secured data, Ashley has urgently passed the information on to their fraud department for further inquiry and investigation.
From my understanding they have never heard of the legal matters involving Harlow and Joseph.
I shared with them the dates involving the criminal activity.
Anyone who shares further concerns about this matter can contact CCBill at 480-422-2022 (Tempe, AZ) or you can email them direct at fraud@ccbill.com or sean@ccbill.com
After some consideration I felt having a post on J1HM about a potential breach of the CCBill secured platform, which we and many of my affiliates and partners use wouldn't be a great idea.
While I have the greatest confidence in CCBill I still maintain that what PC discussed with me was bullshit regarding the CCBill information.
Screwing around and bragging about having information like what he claims to possess is a serious matter.
Like I said before, I had at least 4 telephone converstaions with PC, my cell phone log shows it was over 9 hours of conversations.
In the course of the telephone calls and listening to what PC had to share with me about himself, his background, his association with the case it became clear to me that there was lots of bullshit.
Any reasonable person who after hearing what all I heard could easily come to the same conclusion.
Frankly, I couldn't even grasp I was talking to a gay man. I truly believe in the radar, if you know what I mean. Perhaps PC is really the boyfriend of the Renee girl everyone keeps chattering about.
I had tips come in my TIP DESK from several people who wanted me to check out something about forgery and fraud charges in the State of Texas pretaining to PC names and also an alias or real name he uses. From reading in other posts didn't the Renee girl move to Texas ?
Anyways, I really think its all a bunch of hogwash and my intention in dropping this statement in the first place was to explain why I chose to park my comment concerning the Melody Koicis comment here as opposed to PC's blog.
Like I said its all hogwash.
"From reading in other posts didn't the Renee girl move to Texas ?"
Yes, although she is married to someone else (a former blogger with the screen name Gluttony). They both moved with their family to Lake Worth, Texas.
The relationship between Renee and PC has not always been so close. Originally, Renee had threatened PC with legal action, arrest, prosection, etc. when PC reported the details of the remaining equity in the Harlow house.
However, Renee has a unique gift of winning people back over to her, when it suits her purpose. Like all good con artists, she knows the key to getting people to trust her is to tell them what they want to hear.
So anyways, that's where we are at today. Thanks much for looking into this!
Let me ask you one question, though: Is it theoretically possible for law enforcement to subpoena and retrieve CCBill data, without the knowledge of the Ashley or Sean?
Common sense tells me the answer is "no," but I just want to get that fact established here with 100% certainty.
Is it theoretically possible for law enforcement to subpoena and retrieve CCBill data, without the knowledge of the Ashley or Sean?
Jim - There are two legal jurisdictions in the matter of Harlow and Joe. In Pennsylvania there is the murder case. In Virginia is the organized prositution matter. So my first thinking would be to look at both court cases and see if a subpoena issued to CWIE Holdings, Inc. d/b/a CCBill was ever filed.
Law Enforcement or any other party would need a court order to get that information. It would work just like getting all that cell phone evidence and Yahoo email account information.
Ashley at CCBill told me that she had never heard about the case. I told her a little bit about it. She went to this blog, H&J Blog and the TimesLeader website.
Unless CCBill says otherwise or someone can uncover a court order asking for that information I think PC's claim is false.
You can start by checking out the less than accurate Preliminary Hearing narratives. There is a different version elsewhere.
Bartering. Yardwork in exchange for favors. Neutral my ass!
"Anonymous said...
You can start by checking out the less than accurate Preliminary Hearing narratives. There is a different version elsewhere."
There is? By all means, please post what is missing.
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