"...I’m moving out of the home we live in. I’ve been apartment hunting in San Diego. Grant is really worried about letting me go and he does not want it. But I know that if I get some independence and spend less time here, we will get along better. I know it will take some of the strain off of us. Even if he doesn’t want to admit it, getting some space will save our relationship...."Read the whole thing.
Not much of a shocker, really, if you have been following Brent's blog the past few months; past posts have told of the strain the murder and trial have placed on then, and the glacial melting of their relationship as a result. A slow, reluctant and (thus far) amicable break up. And you know, I think it's fair to say most relationships would have imploded much sooner, under half the strain and pressure this one was subject to, over the past couple years.
Yet another casualty of Harlow and Joe's actions, two Januaries ago.
It would be additionally unfortunate, IMO, if this also led to the breakup of their website and business arrangements. This is not due to me being a "fan" of Brent per se, but rather (as I have said before) me being a fan of ANY porn star who has the guts to take on the gay porn establishment, use the freedom of the internet to strike out on their own, and break the shackles imposed by exploitive porn companies (ie, Cobra Video).
Let me close this post with a quote from the Crab Catcher Transcripts; this is while they are in the car, driving to pick up Harlow and Joe from their hotel...about to meet them face to face for the first time since Las Vegas:
GRANT ROY: (Coughing)... shit, I need some water.
SEAN LOCKHART: I love you.
267 comments:
1 – 200 of 267 Newer› Newest»I speculated on Sean's blog that the 16th of this month is observed in California as August Fools Day, a reference to the April 1 entry on his blog that raised so much interest because it suggested a breakup of the Sean/Grant partnership and Sean's departure from the porn business. People were more upset at that Brent post than when I said DK doesn't exist.
If Sean has to ask Dink Flamingo to buy him an SLR camera, can he afford to rent or even share an apartment in San Diego? Maybe he could get Lee Bergeron to let him stay in a condo.
Look, I think he would feel a lot more comfortable and self sufficient if he were living in a snake ranch with a bunch of other 21 year olds. But I don't know how he would balance that with his business relationships with Grant Roy and Dink Flamingo.
Heh, "Hey Lee, you remember that condo you mentioned...?" :-)
This really is no shocker. The key phrase for me is that Sean is looking for independence as an adult--some self-sufficiency, some self-reliance, some accountability, some responsibility, some need to stake a place that is entirely his own. Not a surprise. He went from his step dad's home to his mom's home; to a kind of possession of Chris Henriquez (Jake); to an obsession and possession briefly of Bryan Kocis' who wouldn't take "Not interested in being a trophy boyfriend and glorified investor playtoy for the plain meaning of "No."; to a mutually respectful relationship with Grant Roy.
You both mention the relationship strain. It is obvious, but Sean doesn't seem to be slamming the proverbial door on Grant. Sean is just asking for space and time and that separation to get his center back so it is a responsible and inevitable thing. Perhaps once the strain of the trial is finally done with this personal and business relationship will resolve itself.
IMO, Brent and Grants decision to live apart may not be a casualty of the "H&J" saga.
Brent states in his blog "Grant and I are textbook type A personalities. We direct and we lead and we both have strong opinions that are never the same"
My first opinion- Brent knows how to write and express himself clearly- intelligent kid!
Second- 2 type A personalities living together [never mind working together in the same field] is torturous.
I don't know if any of you guys have ever been with a type A personality for an extended period.
I was seeing someone for 8 months last year, beautiful, very smart and the strongest type A personality period. Everything and I mean everything is an argument-
not meaning to be an argument [I am very easy going]- the smallest thing-
should we work out now?
should I take the dog out?
where do you want to eat tonite?
all become arguments even when one person [me] is saying nothing.
It is very strange.
Unless you have experienced being with a type A personality you probably would not know what I am talking about.
If you were to ask Brent "what is it like when Grant is driving"
he may say. "well, he drives with one hand on the horn at all times, he speeds, he is constantly berating all other drivers, lots of colorful name calling.
As you can see type A's are something-
They are very smart though,
They shoot for the moon, they want the finer things that money can buy, most definately!
They want to make alot of money.
The one I was with and myself were true opposites.
I am surprised that Brent and grant were able to cohabitate for as long as they did.
It is very hard, they may indeed get closer now that Brent is moving out.
"You both mention the relationship strain. It is obvious, but Sean doesn't seem to be slamming the proverbial door on Grant."
Yeah, that's my sense of it. They both recently celebrated Grant's birthday, for example.
I really know next to nothing about Sean and Grant, and their professional and personal relationship. It's pretty much confined to what I've picked up reading the H % J blogs and articles. And of course there was that infamous April Fool's post, which I have to admit left a me with a pretty iffy impression of Sean.
Having said that, I do think they both seem like basically decent guys whose relationship has two huge obstacles to overcome, leaving aside the murder drama: They both work in the porn business, a notorioius relationship hex, and Brent blogs very openly -- too openly, IMO -- about that relationship. I'm probably making unfair assumptions, but if I were Grant I can tell you I would not be pleased that all of this is laid bare for the world to read about. That has to be an additional strain, as if they don't have enough on their plates already.
But, as I said, I really don't know very much about them, so maybe I'm totally off base. And I wish them both well.
Reading Brents blog over the years it's always surprised me how intelligent he sounds, does make me wonder after the whole Ethan Reynolds scandal if he really writes it all himself.
"...but if I were Grant I can tell you I would not be pleased that all of this is laid bare for the world to read about."
Yeah, the thing is...Brent does this all the time; ie, lays it all out there. That's one of the reason why his blog is so popular, I suspect, is that he's so candid and never shies from baring his emotions...even when it's perhaps not wise to do so.
So, Grant is probably braced for this candor, I imagine.
"...does make me wonder after the whole Ethan Reynolds scandal if he really writes it all himself."
You know, I never read Ethan's "Brat Boy School" blog, but from what I've read, "Ethan" used to post about politics and such, and his ghost writer made him come across as a drop dead gorgeous conservative-leaning pundit.
The reality is, based on comments from people who met Ethan...he's about as non cerebral as they come. His big passion in life is playing World of Warcraft, not neoconservatism.
This is why I think his manager began limiting personal interaction between Ethan and fans after a while...Ethan's inability to carry on an intelligent conversation were so at odds with his blog, people who met him immediately became suspicious.
Comments from people who meet Brent, if you notice, are different. Jason Curious, who interviewed him face to face, flat out calls him "frightenly intelligent." In fact, you can judge the whole matter for yourself; unlike Ethan Reynolds, Brent has done some live radio interviews (in addition to Jason's) and in them has no difficulty carrying on an intelligent conversation.
So yeah, ghost writer for Brent, I'd have to say "no."
the FACT is Sean is seeing someone else.
with work, Dink Flamingo succeeded in area's the much older "ANGRY" CobraKiller failed.
then there is the relationship Sean had with Harlow behind his CobraKillers back.
funny reading others glossy goody views on this :)
"the FACT is Sean is seeing someone else."
Wouldn't surprise me.
"with work, Dink Flamingo succeeded in area's the much older "ANGRY" CobraKiller failed."
Actually, the Dirty Bird press releases have been effluent in their praise of Grant's technical work on Brent's latest videos. so, unless Dink is making this all up...?
"then there is the relationship Sean had with Harlow behind his CobraKillers back."
Brent undoubtably had an online rapport with Harlow in the months after Harlow first contacted Brent about working with BCO (and before the FTF meeting in Vegas). This is SOP with Brent and Grant: Whenever a model responds to one of the mass mailing spam offers Grant sends out, Brent gets to know him online as much as he can...to see if he is really suitable for video work.
Like I said, this is SOP with them. In fact, one of the other recent Brent blog threads deals with his lengthy online wooing of another new model (I forget his name...that really skinny dark complexioned twink...DeW sat in that hot tub with him).
Anyhoo, that guy...yeah, as Brent detailed in his blog, this online flirtation with this newest new model went on for some time...and it has a practical business purpose: by getting to know a model intimately before working together, they work together better when they do. That's the philosophy, anyways.
Obviously, Grant is aware of this. Not only with this new boy (Brent blogged about it in detail, after all) but Harlow as well. It's SOP.
What happened between Brent and Harlow hardly classifies as shocking secret information (although I must admit, it is highly amusing to me that there are people out there who have deluded themselves into thinking it is!). And since it was SOP, Grant either knew about it the whole time; or if he didn't, it was because it was too irrelevant a business detail to occupy his time.
BB said...
"the FACT is Sean is seeing someone else."
I do commend you for dealing with FACTS, BB, if it is indeed a fact. But I would love to know how you keep track of the intimate details of Sean's love life. Or why you would even be interested. And if I were Sean it would creep me out just a little bit, but maybe that's your intention.:)
will,
i often get emails from people who are in the 'know' as to what is going on with sean and his cobrakiller.
funny how it is usually the opposite of what sean says and claims. that is why i pass the information on via the blogs.
"Actually, the Dirty Bird press releases have been effluent in their praise of Grant's technical work on Brent's latest videos. so, unless Dink is making this all up...?"
sean says his cobrakiller is no good with things technical.
which one is lying?
"Grant either knew about it the whole time; or if he didn't, it was because it was too irrelevant a business detail to occupy his time."
you really think so?
then why the cobrakiller invitation to harlow to attend vegas? is that irrelevant too in your view?
what ever was going on between sean and harlow was done behind the cobrakiller and joes backs. is that irrelevant too in your viw?
"This website is in Grant’s name. It’s nothing without me here, but if things go terribly south between the two of us, then I know for a fact that I will not be allowed to just move on with everything I have worked for here; intact."
very telling is this comment from sean about his controlling cobrakiller.
i said well over a year ago that sean will blame everything on his cobrakiller one day. that day seems to be approaching.
"you really think so?
then why the cobrakiller invitation to harlow to attend vegas? is that irrelevant too in your view?
what ever was going on between sean and harlow was done behind the cobrakiller and joes backs. is that irrelevant too in your viw?"
Yes, yes and yes. That is exactly what I am saying.
The whole way Brent got to know Harlow online went down exactly how Brent got to know this more recent model (Cooper is his name, right?). It's SOP for Brent model recruitment.
This whole Sean-Harlow online relationship thing is a dog-bites-man story. Undoubtably true, and trivially irrelevant.
"very telling is this comment from sean about his controlling cobrakiller."
Yes, it will be interesting to see how Grant deals with the changing relationship. It'll be a facinating little experiment in comparitive sociology.
Will Grant wage online war against Brent? Sue him? Send hired goons to crash his events? Send threatening emails proclaiming "I AM THE BOSS!!!!!"?
Will Grant do all of the above (and more?)? Some of the above? Or none of the above?
Then using comparitive analysis, we'll be able to see who is really the "angry" and "controlling" one!
Of course, this changing relationship has been going on for several months now (indeed, as your source indicates BB, Brent already has anew b/f), so lets see where we are at now in the experiment...thus far, it looks like Grant has carried out: None of the above.
"people who are in the 'know' " feed bb stories he WANTS to hear and which are of course "usually the opposite of what sean says and claims" - otherwise he would dismiss them as lies. Is that the same bb who calls other people puppets because they allegedly get fed stories?
That is not as good as the little slip he performed a short while ago were he claimed to do what he does for almost two years now on the basis of a theory he labeled completely new to him just one paragraph before, but it's close.
We discussed "bb" in connection with "double standard" already? Yes? Ok, no need for redundancy.
3 years Brynawel
3 years of BB completely OBSESSED with Brent Corrigan!
Stalker behavior to date shared by only one other man now deceased.
All by a person who CLAIMS to have never met,known or been in the presence of one Brent Corrigan.
Right!
Why the Obsession BB? If I hated someone as much as you do I would want nothing to do with them.
Instead you have spent how many countless hours in 3 years with your true Internet Obsession...
Brent Corrigan
Twisted is That
Oh say Hi to Ben Gilbert ask him how the lipo went too bad the stretch marks are not so easily removed. ( You know Ben,your source for all local Brent news)
Hawai'i is the code name for liposuction?
Ahh Brynawel Ben has a rich "friend" in Hawaii so who knows although it makes a great getaway when ANGRY Gay Porn stars are demanding they get Paid!
Zach Randall for instance.
BB says, "[T]hen there is the relationship Sean had with Harlow behind his CobraKiller[']s back."
Some "fling" as you unwisely and ungraciously observe, a big problem when relying on the Gospel according to Renee Martin. It is quite clear from the BBT's and CCT's that your attempt at creating a relationship between Sean and Harlow circles the drain. The context of both sets of transcripts clearly shows the objective to be a business relationship. There is absolutely no inference whatsoever as to either a personal and love relationship.
BB says "[I] often get emails from people who are in the 'know' as to what is going on with [S]ean and his [C]obrakiller." This comment sure comes across as thoroughly obsessive concerning Sean and his activities and words. Seems you have been relying on Caleb Carter, Mr. Four Sheets to the Wind himself.
Dewayne--
You do seem to be castagating Ben Gilbert's/Caleb Carter's business ethics. You are saying that Caleb skipped out on his obligations to the performers and studio that gave him a director's slot with a film that failed. Zach Randall wasn't paid for his work in that "effort"? Shocking. You are saying Caleb isn't repsonsible? Not self-reliant? Runs for Hawaii when things go South?
Now why would Caleb/Ben be badmouthing Sean? Answer: Grant fired Caleb from working with Sean at LSG because Caleb was out of shape and couldn't hold his booze. Belching, burping, and flab don't cut it in erotic film.
dewayne, you really make me laugh.
funnier still is you probably believe what you say.
i see your all back to the personal attacks LOL.
those will get you to where they got you before.
fact is Dirk made an offer to Sean. Sean accepted this offer. Same way he accepted an offer from Bryan before he turned on him. The same way he accepted an offer from the CobraKiller - who failed to provide any promises made - other than 'dealing' with Bryan.
Bryan is gone, the bills remain unpaid. Naturally Sean is moving along without his CobraKiller. The lying broke CobraKiller failed. Someone else has to provide Sean with a camera to work. Too funny is that.
Attacking me changes nothing :)
"Yes, it will be interesting to see how Grant deals with the changing relationship. It'll be a facinating little experiment in comparitive sociology."
The CobraKiller has already told Sean he'll block him at every turn should Sean not 'play along'.
getting 'fed' stories and being told of 'facts' are not the same thing.
There was never any Brent - Harlow relationship... online, or otherwise!
Brent's approach towards Harlow was no different than any other potential model that we may potentially hire for work! Period!
None of us had met prior to dinner in Las Vegas...
Dewayne how long have you been involved with Sean Lockhart?
Well over 3 years. Your OBSESSED with him. You have said so in posts.
As for me, well I am just following a very interesting gay saga full of hookers, pimps and perverts - proven of course.
Through following this, I have been fortunate enough to get information from people who know the truth.
Those people - or sources - remain confidential. The have a proven track record for providing the truth. You do not.
"DeWayne In San Diego said...
Ahh Brynawel Ben has a rich "friend" in Hawaii so who knows although it makes a great getaway when ANGRY Gay Porn stars are demanding they get Paid!
Zach Randall for instance."
as rich as the CobraKiller claimed to be? all those millions, yet someone else had to perform sex to pay his bills. someone else had to step up to the plate and 'buy' Sean a camera. yep ok, if you say so Dewayne.
It is true,
bb- your hatred of BC is obsessive,
really abnormal.
I am sure that you realize you are the only person blogging hatred about Brent Corrigan and Grant Roy.
Doesn't THAT in itself make you feel a little strange?
Everybody has their opinions and their criticism about Brent, Grant and just about everything about this case. But you, pure hate towards BC.
I deleted an earlier comment,
I am not judging, condemning or anything.
From the outside looking at you-
one might say you need [or really should] be comitted to a nice comfy pysche unit for serious help.
That is from someone with nothing against you.
What ARE you going to do when this ends, and it IS going to end.
What are you going to do with your hate?
"Seems you have been relying on Caleb Carter, Mr. Four Sheets to the Wind himself."
unlike you, I rely on no person to feed lies to me and then try present them as truth.
if you do not provide proof of anything you claim, it is assumed to be a lie. why? coz all your claims to date have proven to be lies.
you'll never learn.
You have to admit that Sean Lockhart 24/7 might be a bit hard to take. Sean has to be the most infuriating back seat driver on the planet. In the CC and BBT tapes, whenever Sean and Grant are in the truck alone, they are constantly bickering about directions to places they have been dozens of times. Any excuse for a fight. In the CC restaurant, our little pedant has to point out twice that Poseidon and Neptune are the same thing. A glimmer of ninth grade English shining through. I bet if you tossed his old room at his stepdad's house in Seattle, you might find a dusty, barely-cracked paperback of Edith Hamilton's Mythology under a pile of dirty laundry. Grant must have the patience of Job. It's hard to see how you could put in a productive work day. Leave him alone for 2:45, collaborate/argue for :15, leave him alone for 2:45, collaborate/argue for :15, then give it a rest for 18 hours. Or let him float on an air mattress in the damned pool and tan for 24. I paid some Haitian gals $9 an hour to sit with my mother when she was at home on hospice care. I wonder if Rocket and Cooper get a similar deal.
"Brent's approach towards Harlow was no different than any other potential model that we may potentially hire for work! Period!"
Exactly what I suspected.
"I am just following a very interesting gay saga"
LOL!!!
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING,
can you say that with a straight face?
You have declared this war with Brent Corrigan and taking EVERY opportunity [and then some] to maliciously degrade and humiliate him-
I have said it before-
it is only a reflection on you.
But cut the shit bb-
"I am only following a very intersting gay saga"
BULLSHIT-
You don't believe that and nobody else does either.
Everybody sees you for what you are - a hate obsessed individual.
You come across LOUD AND CLEAR as just that.
It does not give people pleasure to see that in another human being,
don't get the wrong idea.
Get help-
YOU NEED IT.
Let me say,
When this case is all over and
the forums are gone [for the most part]
the players have gone on with their lives-
[except the ones in jail]-
that is when [if I were Brent Corrigan] I would be nervous.
bb will have no where to vent-
it will stay inside him and fester.
He will be alone with it-
who would want to be around someone like this?
and he will be obsessing hate about Brent Corrigan all alone and all the time.
Yes, at that time I would be nervous if I were Brent Corrigan.
I am serious.
"Grant said...
There was never any Brent - Harlow relationship... online, or otherwise!"
you'd not know that if it was done behind your back.
do you STILL think I am Bryan? :)
some of you folks crack me up!
now the attack is "he is unstable"
roflmao.
knock yourself s out.
If anything was to ever happen to Brent Corrigan,
who would be the FIRST person the police would go to?
Answer- bb
Why would that be? bb
Blogger BB said...
do you STILL think I am Bryan? :)
Of course not ROBERT but then most of us on Juicy Goo could tell the diff between you and Bryan.
Same at Gay Torrents bub Albert and I saw thru that right away.
Your "act" like "you laugh this all off" and "it is all very light to you"
"you have no buds on the blogs and prefer it that way"
is very, very transparant and fooling nobody-
unstable? probably
dangerous- yes.
BB, if you are going to take Harlow's word for it that there was a surreptitious "relationship" with Sean behind Grant's back, are you also going to take him at his word that he was in the motel room during the murder?
You can't cherry-pick your "facts" from an unreliable source.
"getting 'fed' stories and being told of 'facts' are not the same thing."
This means in bb's universe: Everything other people are saying and are being told falls into the category "stories", everything bb gets told and tells is a "fact". The differentiator within the Kocisphere therewith is: Did IT pass the BB information hub. And fitting his theories does help to be classified as "fact" as well.
Now, with a known obsession for about THREE years (thank you, DeWayne) and the constant claim of being the Minitrue of all things Kocisphere, "people who are in the 'know'" somehow sounds like "voices in my head".
And since the BB didn't even try to deny that Carter may be his source: the category "fact" is screwed.
"V.J. said...
If anything was to ever happen to Brent Corrigan,
who would be the FIRST person the police would go to?"
The CobraKiller DUH!.
"Of course not ROBERT but then most of us on Juicy Goo could tell the diff between you and Bryan."
here we go again :)
prove it :)
it drives you almost as nuts as the CobraKiller - and you had a head start in the nuts department. want me to elaborate?
"you have no buds on the blogs and prefer it that way"
that is true. thats the way it will stay.
your other assumptions are wrong.
"LOL!!!
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING,
can you say that with a straight face?"
no lol.
i will not let the cobrakiller get away with his lies. he did it to himself - he really should watch his mouth. that's what got him into his mess.
"You can't cherry-pick your "facts" from an unreliable source."
you confuse me with rob and dewayne.
Blogger BB said...
"Of course not ROBERT but then most of us on Juicy Goo could tell the diff between you and Bryan."
here we go again :)
prove it :)
I WILL!
CobraKiller says:
"I WILL!"
uhuh, just like you said you'd prove I was Bryan Kocis :)
I understand your ANGER and RAGE regarding the fact Sean has finally seen right through you and no longer has any use for you.
Your problem is that, yours alone.
Somewhere down the line Sean will reveal all the nasty details you want nobody to know.
BB said...
"you confuse me with rob and dewayne."
Um, no.
Just in case I wasn't clear, who is your source for this alleged clandestine relationship if it is not proven liar and soon-to-be-proven murderer Harlow Cuadra? I doubt it was Sean, and they're the only two people who would know. So do tell.
"I understand your ANGER and RAGE regarding the fact Sean has finally seen right through you and no longer has any use for you."
Not according to Sean's blog post. As it makes clear, they are still very much joined at the hip in a business sense. They both still need each other, in that respect.
So, whatever the reason for the change, it certainly isn't "no longer any use."
Just to add to Jim's last comment, here is Sean on the person he "no longer has any use for":
"I do very much love Grant, and we are still very much a unit. We are family."
Blogger BB said...
Somewhere down the line Sean will reveal all the nasty details you want nobody to know.
This should greatly concern Robert Wagner, Bryan's unindicted co-conspirator...
"This should greatly concern Robert Wagner, Bryan's unindicted co-conspirator..."
That would be his problem. However all such claims have not seen the light of day - I strongly suspect they wont either.
will,
i do not reveal sources. i have made the clear many times.
"I do very much love Grant, and we are still very much a unit. We are family."
"This website is in Grant’s name. It’s nothing without me here, but if things go terribly south between the two of us, then I know for a fact that I will not be allowed to just move on with everything I have worked for here; intact."
hmmmm.
as usual, time will tell eh.
Wagner--
You can save the BB crap. You stepped out of your BB masque too many times.
Reliance on Caleb Carter for "facts" is not very wise. You'd almost have to think that Caleb was drinking with 6 foot white rabbits and pink elephants. Marvelous foundation for facts is that. Ah, Yoda speak, a Robert Wagner trait.
bb said,
"The cobrakiller Duh!"
Okay,
Then that would make you second.
"I understand your anger and rage"
bb,
You have absolutely NO proof there is ANY anger OR rage on the part of anyone here.
..there is proof about yours though.
Wagner writes, "if you do not provide proof of anything you claim, it is assumed to be a lie. why? coz all your claims to date have proven to be lies."
"Lies" you say. You can call your self Tinker Bell and you'd still be Robert Wagner. Claiming "a lie" for an adversary is a failed tactic of totalitarian dictators, control freaks, and McCarthyites. Changes nothing when you are asked for facts to back any claim you have ever made, you fade and wilt.
You spin and I will point out your logical and factual errors. Remember the 3-way jailhouse phone calls. Turned out to be true.
Then there is Sean's age issue. You claimed he would be 22 now. Golly gee whiz willackers! Sean is21.
Keep being "right" Wagner.
Dewayne. You trade torrents on gay torrents which allows you to get free porn. Did you alert Sean that his files were being traded on that site?
If so(and I have no idea if you did) wouldn't that would make you a Hippocrate.
ohhhh bb hit a nerve, some fact i revealed was true - now they try to understand how i knew. back to being rw and/or cc again is the best they can come up with :)
suns, these people (i use that term loosely) have double standards.
their motto is "do as i say - not as i do". it applies to everything with them.
it is ok for Dewayne to be into boy rape porn, it does not make him a pervert. yet Dewanye has called Robert Wagner a pervert because he apparently enjoys bondage.
then we have rob who say Robert Wagner was upstairs watching the murder happen on CCTV, when pressed for proof he provided none. yet he thinks it is ok for him to ask me for proof. enough about him, everything he claimed has proven to be lies - as i predicted.
i could list dozens of more examples.
Suns--
I do believe Dewayne refers to the blogger's section of that site.
This is for BB:
Memorable BB "Truths" Department
BB writes, "[Supporters of Sean] even claim Bryan made a threat to murder Lockhart. After this imaginary threat, Lockhart moved back in with Kocis."
Reality:
Sean left Kocis' Dallas Township, Midland Drive, with West Belmont Road access home in Pennsylvania in August of 2004, to return but briefly with Grant Roy to take possession and title to the Jetta automobile Kocis gave Sean as a bonus in addition to his contract.
The Hawaii working, holiday trip took place in December, 2004. During this trip, Kocis and Sean drove into the cliffs on the island of Maui. At some point, the Cobra they were driving is parked and Kocis relates his "Waste management" story, regarding the wayward 16 year old eliminated for crossing his boss. After August, 2004 Sean never lived, or stayed alone with Kocis at Kocis' house after Kocis not so subtle threat. Source: Sean Lockhart @ Jason Curious, Guest Column, "A Siren's Tale," 4 parts.
BB--
Well that confirms it then. Elwood P. Dowd and Harvey are Caleb Carter's sources.
bb says,
"as usual time will tell"
That sums up your "facts" and your attacks on Grant Roy and Brent Corrigan- absolutely NO SUBSTANCE-
there NEVER WAS any. You never gave any legitimate backup or proof of your "opinions" of these 2 people and you will not be able to start now or ever.
Your tirades and accusations have all been BASELESS.
At the very beginning of this [for me 1 -1/2 years- I watched the "bb show" my first impression- he knows something worth listening to- after repeated attempts by me and a whole lot of other people for proof- there came NONE. bb just ignores demands of proof-
next impression of "the bb show"
he hates Brent Corrigan and Grant Roy and has no proof to back up anything he says-
After a year- next impression,
this little turd [sorry but true- is a serious hatemonger, obsessed and has serious problems. To carry this online hate - and possibly offline- I would not be surprised.
Now it has gotton to the point where one sees you [I know I am not the only one] as a very sad, pitiful person. One who is very young, not wise at all in the ways of life, dealing with people, interacting. Probably has no life/coping/social skills and stands no chance of getting better without the proper help.
I am not a member of the Brent Corrigan fan club- but-
you have attacked and attacked and this kid has not given you the time of day. Not a single response.
Has not acknowledged you IN ANY FASHION, that I have seen.
To use a bb expression- "Telling Is That"-
The kid has balls-
you do not-
you hide behind "bb" and you DO hide-
You hide and hate - and it has not affected him, his career, his relationships, status in the industry he is in.
Of course people are allowed their opinion-
you are not giving opinion - so you don't count in that category.
You state "bb fact"
You should know what you look like-
people do not tell you,
you are alone in your fight and you just look pathetic in it.
If other bloggers feel I am wrong I implore you to speak up.
This is NOT a mass attack on you - a long overdue reality check.
bb said,,
suns, these people (i use that term loosely) have double standards.
their motto is "do as i say - not as i do". it applies to everything with them.
Of course this wouldn't apply to you right?
Your next statement passes for bb logic
"it is ok for Dewayne to be into boy rape porn, it does not make him a pervert. yet Dewanye has called Robert Wagner a pervert because he apparently enjoys bondage."
No Robert is the one who enjoys raping boys, Rape and Torture is what WE call Bondage in the absence of consent.
I believe in Consensual sex always
Robert does not.
THAT and his predilection for underage sex (shared with his mentor) makes him a pervert.
And a DISGRACE to all S & M aficionados!
rob,
I don't rely on Sean for any quotes or statements that supposedly came from Bryan. I just don't.
He's just not credible in that area to me.
I would listen to an impartial independent source though. I just don't think we have one.
Suns why not read Bryans own words from his own emails. Many of those have been published, no matter the veterans of the Kocis war witnessed its start at Juicy goo in July 2005
Started by Bryan,truth be told & bb the "disinterested observer who supposedly knew no one"
Right!
BB said...
will,
i do not reveal sources. i have made the clear many times.
BB, once again you missed my point, which is precisely that there can BE no OTHER source for something that is only, by your very own definition, known by only two people. I know that you are referring back to those raw witness statements for this supposed secret relationship, but that is hearsay and the SOURCE is Harlow.
Now if you simply said that it was you OPINION that this relationship was real, instead of stating it as FACT, then you would at least have a bit of credibility, since everyone is entitled to their opinions. But you ALWAYS state your opinion as FACT.
It is the very same thing as your claiming to know what went down at the Le Cirque dinner, when there is NO WAY for you to know that. There again you rely on the word of H & J, two completely discredited sources, and claim it as fact, and when pressed on this you don't admit it. And "time will tell" is not an effective bromide when people are pressing you to back up your claims.
I've said in the past that you are correct to insist on backup for claims made here, e.g. from Rob, but you do have a terrible track record when the same is asked of you.
Robert is a rapist as well as being a pervert? I do hope you reported this to the authorities with proof.
Sean will dump you too when he has no further need for you :)
Sean and Grant were complicit in Bryan's murder? I do hope you reported this to the authorities with proof.
"BB writes, "[Supporters of Sean] even claim Bryan made a threat to murder Lockhart. After this imaginary threat, Lockhart moved back in with Kocis."
the facts are out there, this statement is the truth.
as usual, you do not know a fact from your elbow.
it was during this time sean sent his cobrakiller an email detailing their plan to steal knowledge from Bryan, then ruin him and his business.
this was their master plan. all laid out. in an email that became very public.
"it was during this time sean sent his cobrakiller an email detailing their plan to steal knowledge from Bryan,..."
Steal knowledge?
I do hope you reported this to the authorities with proof.
:-)
BB said...
"it was during this time sean sent his cobrakiller an email detailing their plan to steal knowledge from Bryan, then ruin him and his business."
Thank you, BB. I knew there must be an explanation for Sean going back to Bryan after the threat. You just provided the motives: self-improvement and then revenge. Maybe not entirely admirable, but very understandable and human. And all this time you've said the threat couldn't have happened or else he wouldn't have gone back! Thanks for clearing that up.
This was the same time, Summer of 2005, when Sean briefly stayed with Robert Wagner as part of the Cobra Video NYC Pride, at which time Wagner begged Sean not to tell Kocis that he was seeing Ben, the BF that Kocis had told Wagner to dump and stay away from. You will remember that because you went to lunch with Sean and asked, as Kocis' emissary, that Sean get back in the fold.
As was pointed out, Sean never stayed alone with Kocis, or lived with him as you implied, after the Summer of 2004 live-in experiment and the Maui, Hawaii death threat.
"the facts are out there[;] this statement is the truth."
I remember this esoteric discussion from last year around this time.
Let's parse the compound sentence.
"The facts"--Should be definite and tied to a place and/or time certain. Question: what "facts"? None are provided.
"are out there"--extraordinarily vague. Where exactly? Another blog? A safety deposit box? A safe? This X Files motto does not serve as a stand-in for specificity.
"this statement is the truth." A glaring generality without specifics. It is a special pleading and asks any reader to blindly accept the weak premise grounded in the factless first statement preceeding it. Accept because you say so; absolutely not without proof. Hence, this "proof" of yours is voided for vagueness.
Suns you know Sean Lockhart how exactly? A public appearance? Personal friendship?
This is what happens when one relies on BB. Lots of promise, but no facts delivered.
"I do hope you reported this to the authorities with proof.
:-)"
i know the authorities have it :)
will let me get this straight. you think the thing to do after someone says they will throw you off a cliff is to move in with that person regardless of the reasons?
sean is a proven liar over and over again. as of now, i have yet to see sean write or speak of the threat against his life by Bryan Kocis.
if you decide to take the word of dewayne and rob, that is your choice. so far no proof or evidence to suggest the claim is true. hell rob even thinks the threat took place after sean moved out - shows he is clueless.
"Steal knowledge?"
yes.
BB said...
"will let me get this straight. you think the thing to do after someone says they will throw you off a cliff is to move in with that person regardless of the reasons?"
OK, now we appear to have a conflict because Rob is saying he never moved back in with him. I have no idea if he did or didn't, but let's assume he did.
The veiled threat from Kocis was referencing a murder for hire. That could take place anywhere in the world. In fact, probably the safest place to be under the cloud of such a threat is IN THE VERY SAME HOUSE with Kocis, since the last thing he would want is a dead body in his house. (Sorry for that tasteless observation.) And of course he would take pains not to be linked to the killer. So there is nothing odd in my mind about Sean moving in with him, or even being in proximity to him.
"sean is a proven liar over and over again. as of now, i have yet to see sean write or speak of the threat against his life by Bryan Kocis."
BB, what is that supposed to mean? He wrote about it in "A Siren's Tale."
"The Master Plan"
Even if that IS true,
for arguments sake we will say it IS true.
It is the very least that Bryan Kocis deserved IMHO.
If Bryan Kocis did to someone that I love what he did to Brent Corrigan [the Vendetta]-
- just what I personally witnessed-
the emails to people from BK about BC-
I would have wanted [really, really wanted] to drive a stake through his f***ing heart!
Not saying it is right, just saying I would have wanted,
really wanted to do it.
quickly going back to talk of Vegas dinner, I said there was [IMO] alot of hate there at the table.
Emanating from Grant Roy-
I did not finish my thought, I will now,
UNDERSTANDABLE hate, not irrational-
Bryan Kocis did an inhuman, disgusting number on a kid-
Not to bring H&J into this thread but it all comes together somehow-
Nobody asked them to kill the beast.
If it were my boyfriend brutalized-
yes, brutalized by Bryan Kocis-
I would want to take the mallet and the stake and do the deed myself-
but we are rational people and we do not kill.
"will let me get this straight. you think the thing to do after someone says they will throw you off a cliff is to move in with that person regardless of the reasons?"
Yes, and under the circumstance, Sean's was highly motivated(indeed, practically compelled) to do so. The nature of the threat ("If you try to reveal to the world your true age, we will kill you") combined with the facts that 1) doing porn was Sean's only marketable skill; and 2) doing porn elsewhere than Cobra Video meant having to give them a real ID; literally left Sean with few real options. It was either go back to Cobra, regardless of the terms...or live in poverty.
You have to remember, that's generally how Bryan manipulated his models into permanent servitude...told them, for example, no other studio would ever hire them because they did bareback. Cobra Video was now the only company they could ever work for.
Sean obviously chose not to live in poverty. He made up his mind to go back, but he probably planned to break free ASAP by starting up his own company. After, of course "stealing knowledge" (LOL!) from Bryan.
Hypothetically, this plan would have worked well for everyone. Sean, in command of his own company, could have kept his own "2257s" and never advertised his true age. It would have been win-win-win for everyone...Brent gets his independance (and presumably, would not have been murdered or even harrassed by Bryan), Bryan keeps his 4 blockbuster Brent videos on the market, and Cobra's new investors Bryan had brought in would be rich and happy.
But as we all know, this plan fell apart. "Siren's Tale" cuts off tantalizingly at the point where Brent was going to say why and how it fell apart. But there are enough hints in other interviews that we can pretty much reconstruct what happened: In a nutshell, Bryan was so much a control freak, he could not stand the idea of one of his top models like Brent EVER getting away from him. Win-win-win wasn't good enough for Bryan...it had to be "win-alone" for him, or nothing.
This led to Bryan sending hate-and-vengeance spewing emails to Brent ("I am the BOSS! I make the rules!"). Which led to Brent breaking the underage story to Doug Lawrence at AVN.
Again, Brent really had no choice. If Bryan was sincere about saying "TRAITORS will be dealt with!" as he did in those emails, Brent had to get his true age out there, so police would know where to look in case anything bad happened to him.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
Like I've said many times before, the man most reponsible for the destruction of Bryan Kocis was Bryan Kocis.
BB is not the only one who firmly believes that Sean & Grant were complacent in Bryan's murder. I think that they found an obviously stupid couple of losers in Harlow & Joe, they knew they could use and pin the blame on. SO FAR it seems to be working. but time will tell. I'll tell you that if I were on the jury and thought through the official motive, I would find it hard to believe...
Jim--
Tremendous and thundering succinct summation of the Brent-Bryan duality and feud.
You observe, "The nature of the threat ("If you try to reveal to the world your true age, [WE] will kill you"). . . ."
Does the "we" you use here refer to the imperial WE, a favorite usage of the late Queen Victoria in stating her views in a 3rd person plural sense to others; or to Kocis and his personal assistant; or to Kocis, his ephebophobic male friends/investors, and personal assistant; or some other cabal? And No, I am not into conspiracy theories.
Will G references Sean's column @ Jason Curious, "A Siren's Tale."
You would also do well to consult BCO blogs as contemporaneous statements surrounding this serialized version of Sean's life with Kocis and friend.
I would also point out Sean's rejoinder regarding Wagner's spun rooming arrangements account at the Plaza, 4th of July weekend 2004, which followed the release of Michael Gross' OUT article.
Consult also a set of email for 2005, at the Cobra Video website in which a blogger with no name, in a suspiciously familiar writing style, states that Sean should be punished by Kocis and company-- made to live out a rape fantasy involving more than 3 individuals and then pissed on--for defying the vermin king. I would say that is quite a threat in itself. Those I screened captured--remarks telling for threatening and encouraging violence directed at a named person, Sean Lockhart-- certain statements attributed to an "Anonymous" who was writing independently of No Name at the same place and later at Jason Curious' 3 days following Kocis' murder.
Getting back to the subject at hand for just a moment, The Sword included this in a roundup of "an unprecedented week of turmoil" in the gay porn world:
"Twink-repreneur Brent Corrigan posted a "Dear John" letter of sorts to his Svengali-boyfriend Grant Roy on his blog in his classic blogorhea-ic style. In the somewhat vague entry entitled Life Floats On. . ."
http://www.thesword.com/2008/08/porn-week-in-review-shocking-week-rocks-the-stars.html#more
I don't know him at all Rob. I don't want to know him. I just know enough about him to know that I don't trust him.
I don't trust Grant either but if he died tomorrow and Sean started talking smack about him I wouldn't automatically believe that either. Grant wouldn't be around to defend himself. Just like Bryan isn't around to defend himself.
Every model other than Sean who's spoken about Bryan has said nice things about him. Even ones who didn't get to work the him like Kyros Christian have said nice things about him. Even Sean was willing to work with him again which makes any talk of death threats unbelievable to me. I'm just using plain logic and not emotion.
If the tables were turned and Sean was the one six feet under I would feel the same way. I wouldn't automatically believe bad things Bryan might say about Sean.
I will say this. By his own actions and words Sean does not seem like the most loyal trustworthy person to me. Just an opinion.
Bryan makes threats against Sean. Sean moves back in with Bryan so that he can be safe. Is that what I'm reading?
Some of you people are crazy. That's not even close to being rational.
That's some Bizzaro world shit right there.
"Suns said...
Bryan makes threats against Sean. Sean moves back in with Bryan so that he can be safe. Is that what I'm reading?
Some of you people are crazy. That's not even close to being rational."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Suns said...
"Bryan makes threats against Sean. Sean moves back in with Bryan so that he can be safe. Is that what I'm reading?"
Perhaps I was unclear. He didn't move in with him to be safe. But if a threat involving muder for hire is made against you, you are theoretically unsafe anywhere except PERHAPS in the home of the person who made the threat -- he is not going to have it carried out while you are there! In addition, you might want to try to repair that relationship, at least on the surface, to ensure your future safety.
By the way, as I think Jim has mentioned several times, Sean's account was published while Bryan was alive, and he never demanded a retraction, even when settling the lawsuit. That should tell you something.
Will G--
I concur with your view.
Sun's view is similar to much earlier remarks made by Cad, a close Bryan Kocis friend.
Will G observes, ". . . Sean's account was published while Bryan was alive, and he never demanded a retraction, even when settling the lawsuit. That should tell you something."
Sean's account does tell something. There is far more to this part of the Kocis Saga and that coupled with Sean's consistency in statements delivered elsewhere speaks volumes to its veracity. Sun's, Cadinot4ever's, and Robert Wagner's views notwithstanding.
"Rob said...
Sun's view is similar to much earlier remarks made by Cad, a close Bryan Kocis friend."
And almost certainly one of the Cobra "investors" Bryan referred to in his ranting and raving letter, using the money on hired goons to stalk and intimidate Brent and Grant:
"More lies, how many do you expect me to believe?? And that investors money this week kicking in, did you really think you aren't being watched now? It's worth the money."
http://dewayneinsd.blogspot.com/2007/05/ranting-and-raving-from-lunatic.html
To proove my theory, if the names of these "investors" ever does become public (ie, through discovery in the Kocis case), it is my intention to publish their names and addresses here on this blog.
R
Ahrrr!
(is it "Talk Like a Pirate Day" already?)
Mmm, no...but it's coming up relatively soon:
http://www.talklikeapirate.com/
Jim quoting Bryan Kocis in an email to Sean Lockhart (that email containing another threat of bodily harm to be done onto Sean if he does not get back into line), "And that investor[']s money this week kicking in, did you really think you aren't being watched now?"
Precisely Jim.
This is why those comments at Jason Curious 3 days after Bryan Kocis' murder got my interest. Only insiders would have known about Bergeron's backdoor dealing with Kocis regarding Sean's future with Kocis without Grant.
Jim--
Forgive the my phonetic "R" comment, but pirate "arrrgh" would be appropriate.
jim said,
"if the names of these investors"
I think that is a good idea to publish the names.
I also think someone should reprint some of those "special" emails that were sent from Bryan.
I have never seen those surface anywhere since the murder, and maybe some people could benefit by getting a look at them.
I don't mean to kick a dead horse
[or a dead Kocis, I like horses]
--
If somebody remembers how they used to end-
with some kind of strange message/threat-
["you don't play with the monkey???"]
I have been trying to remember.
suns,
You are definately entitled to your opinions.
You do not state your opinion as fact.
You have not started an all out hate war with BC, complete with "years long, mass time consuming" hate blogs-
that, IMO is what sets you apart from bb-
I don't really like this tendency to think that anyone who may disagree about Sean and Grant -- e.g. Suns -- must ipso facto have an ulterior motive and/or be a friend/supporter of Bryan's. In fact, as I stated once on another thread, I really don't like the speculation about anybody's identity, including BB's. I just think it's pointless.
People should feel free to express any view they like, without being subject to that kind of speculation, IMHO. And as V.J. said, there is absolutely nothing objectionable in Suns' approach that should warrant that. Well, Suns DID call me crazy, but that's a legitimate viewpoint as well!
"Twink-repreneur Brent Corrigan posted a "Dear John" letter of sorts to his Svengali-boyfriend Grant Roy on his blog in his classic blogorhea-ic style. In the somewhat vague entry entitled Life Floats On. . ."
a dear john to his last john - the now dumped cobrakiller - who failed to provide on all accounts including promises made :)
if bryan did have any investors - and its a huge if - what does that have to do with his murder? if true, this would have been revealed already.
nothing shows bryan had investors, he was a one man operation. he made tons of money right?
what does that have to do with the actions of the cobrakiller?
this backdoor deal you all talk about between bryan and lee, where did that info come from?
will,
anyone who expresses a view or provides proof of any claims made against sean and his dumped cobrakiller gets attacked period.
rob told us who the leader of the pack is - the cobrakiller via dewayne.
this all began with the actions of the cobrakiller.
i think it is ok to post names and addresses on any legal documents.
however, when this was done revealing the cobrakillers address and phone number, everyone screamed that info was putting seans life at risk.
nobody said boo when the cobrakiller made bryans address public.
double standards eh :)
will g said...
“I don't really like this tendency to think that anyone who may disagree about Sean and Grant -- e.g. Suns -- must ipso facto have an ulterior motive.
Suns does not voice opinions. He makes accusations phrased as questions. That is an attack method used when you have no evidence to back up a logical argument. In itself that reveals an ulterior motive.
Suns has made only four comments in this thread. They can be summarized this way.
(1) “Dewayne. You trade torrents……wouldn't that would make you a Hippocrate.” This is an accusation. There are no facts backing up the name calling. It is just a personal attack. Nothing more.
(2) “I don't rely on Sean for any quotes,…..He's just not credible”
Again Suns provides no rational or logical reason. He is just making another targeted personal attack.
(3) “I don't know him at all Rob…. I don't trust him. I don't trust Grant either,… By his own actions and words Sean does not seem like the most loyal trustworthy person to me. Just an opinion.”
Saying a thing is an opinion does not make it one. This is again another personal attack with no facts to back it up. The one opportunity Suns appeared to make at presenting a fact, he actually was telling a lie. “Every model other than Sean who's spoken about Bryan has said nice things about him.” That is a lie. One does not make up a lie to support an accusation without an ulterior motive.
(4) “Some of you people are crazy,… not even close to being rational.” Again no facts to support his accusations. Just attacks. No opinions, just attacks. No substance, just attacks.
Those are my reasons for determining that suns has nothing but ulterior motives, absolutely nothing.
Will I agree to a point. I draw the line with comments condoning violence against the person of anyone. That well passes allowable free speech of the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution.
VJ has a useful suggestion. A reposting of those Kocis emails threatening Sean is in order.
Will the identity speculation stems from the Juicygoo(July Aug 2005) war and the ham handed and plain inept way Bryan handled that. No one on the Cobra side would really admit who they were, they just launched a full bore attack on Brent.
To think it started as an innocent discussion on Barebacking.
What you do need to understand the former Cobra customers were/are an opinionated lot. I recall many of the comments left on the Cobra site.
When Brent went public in late August 2005 with the underage issue the Cobra Customers erupted and divided early on.
You were either pro Sean or Pro Bryan.
In Aug 2005 I would say the MAJORITY opinion was pro Bryan.
I know I certainly was not on Sean's side in the beginning.
Which is the main reason I have always been attacked by the few Cobra partisans left.
You know "Traitors will be dealt with" ;)
They either have their heads buried in the sand and want to shoot the messengers rather than deal with the unpleasant reality that Bryan Kocis used underage models i.e. he filmed child pornography.
Or they Know it and want to keep it secret (too late)
They seem to be under the convenient delusion because the Feds have not moved against Cobra (presently operating illegally) or Robert Wagner that proves the underage porn was a fallacy.
What they fail to realize the Feds are waiting for the conclusion of
1. The J & H trial
2. Completion of their investigation.
Will, the Cobra partisans and defenders were still arguing when Bryan was murdered that Sean was lying about being underage.
The final settlement required proof of age and confirming documents be presented if Sean had been lying about that crucial point don't you think Bryan would have moved to return the banned videos to store shelves?
Which some Cobra partisans confidently predicted (Cad in particular)would happen!
They hate it when I mention the following Inconvenient Truths...
1. Why can't I buy Every Poolboys Dream,Schoolboy Crush or Bareboned Twinks nearly 2 years after age documents were submitted at the September 2006 deposition.
2.The 2001 case with the 15 yo boy added to Sean means Bryan filmed and had sex with two legally established underage boys!
3. Judge Michael Conahan stated in reviewing dozens of hours of video of countless boys in 2002 that HE could not determine age absent documentation.
Notice he did not say "oh they all look older than 18!"
4. Kyros Christian volunteered to Albert in an interview last January that he was on IM with Bryan at 16 and Bryan invited him to PA for filming. Kyros informed Bryan he was 16. Bryan responded "Thats not a problem"
What is incredible about this we are talking 2005 a time when Bryan already knew he was facing a major scandal with Sean.
5. Of course other names have surfaced and were provided to the FBI those names will be held back so as to not invite public attacks from Robert Wagner and the Cobra partisans.
So you may understand while the Cobra defenders might be passionate in their denials and defense of their hero Saint Bryan of Luzerne, They are not idiots!
They have NO INTENTION of revealing their identity!
If you were defending Ephebophilia like Robert Wagner,BB,Cad would You?
"nothing shows bryan had investors, he was a one man operation."
The email quote I posted was from Bryan. He speaks of "investors money this week kicking in..."
Bryan's own words.
BB--
The backdoor deal involving Bergeron and Kocis and their plans for Sean's future without Grant Roy is detailed in the BBT's. This information was overheard by Harlow Cuadra who was present with Kocis when that call was received by Kocis.
Cadinot4ever is known to be one of the last individuals to have been in discussion with his friend Kocis with whom he was also a Cobra Video patron.
Kocis authored those harassing and threatening emails to Sean discussed by both Will G and Jim here.
You write, "I think it is ok to post names and addresses on any legal documents." That is a Cadinot4ever tactic, a heavy-handed British solicitor's ploy to intimidate a then 18 to 20 year old into silence regarding inner dealings of Cobra Video. You go on to write of reader's disgust with that revelation as being a double standard. No. All of us expected more from an officer of the court, albeit, a British one. But then the attitude of Kocis towards his models was that they were interchangeable objects of sexual desire and gratification; Cadinot4ever is merely an example of that contempt in practice.
Albert - As long as someone says in a post that they are just stating an opinion, it has to be taken as such, I would argue, no matter how objectionable you may find the substance of the remark. This has been my main criticism of BB, who never qualifies his comments with that caveat. And I also think it's a bit extreme to call a comment you may find factually incorrect "a lie." Why not just say it is mistaken?
DeWayne - I do realize this posting drama has been going on a long, long time, and that much of that has included Cobra partisans, business associates, friends, etc. In the past there may have been a real purpose in pointing out those affiliations if there was substantial proof of them. But I think in the context of a murder trial, which is the subject of most of these threads, it's just distracting to continue that. The endless attempts to tag BB as R. Wagner are the most glaring example. It may or may not be true, but the repeated accusations and denials get us nowhere. I guess I would just prefer that people's motives not be constantly questioned. By all means attack the SUBSTANCE of what someone posts, but the personal attacks -- on BOTH sides BB -- are inappropriate IN MY OPINION!
Just an addendum to my last comment:
I was referring almost exclusively to anonymous posters in my remarks. I believe everyone has the right to remain anonymous if they choose to. In the cases where someone's identity is known, I realize there are slightly different rules that apply when talking about motives, etc. This does especially hold true with someone like Renee, unfortunately for her, but she is a witness in the trial, so her motives may actually be germane to the case. But even there I think all discussion should be kept civil, and name-calling and personal attacks be discouraged. (And that goes for BOTH sides, Renee, if you're out there!)
will g said, "As long as someone says in a post that they are just stating an opinion, it has to be taken as such,..."
No Will, it does not. An opinion must be based on some fact. As I pointed out, Suns has no fact. He has lies but no substance. He lied. It was not presented as a comment but as a statement of fact that "Every model other than Sean,..." It is there in black and white. That is not my opinion. It is a fact that he lied. The only time he even tried to present a reason he lied. Sun's comments are nothing more than the personal attacks you told DeWayne you find inappropriate.
I might attack suns substance if there was any but as I already demonstrated, no such substnce exists. None.
Albert, just one question: Why is it not within the realm of possibility that Suns was simply unaware of the fact that one or more other models had negative things to say? And why not just correct the misstatement of fact instead of attacking the poster as a liar?
"An opinion must be based on some fact."
Well...strictly speaking, no. You can have an uninformed opinion. But to base it on facts, and hence be well-informed, yes, that is preferable!
"Every model other than Sean,..."
Yeah, I don't get why he keeps making this false claim. Brent Everett flat out called Bryan "creepy" in a nationally broadcast radio interview, for example. And he is a "model other than Sean."
And the salient fact about Kyros Christian is not what he had to say about Bryan, but that Kyros was ***16*** when Bryan was seducing him online. Whether Kyros thought Bryan was "nice" during these online chats is, well, rather irrelevant to that overriding salient fact! :-)
And I've been doing some more pondering along these lines as well.
Cobra has over 75 models listed on it's web page. The fact that only a paltry 3 models came forward after his brutal murder to say nice things about him (ie, less than 4%) is a pretty stunning indictment against Bryan's character.
Just to give a frame of reference...imagine if Chi Chi LaRue died today. Or Chris Steele, or some other porn producer of that reputation. The testamonials they would get would be OVERWHELMING. I dare say close to 100% of the models who ever worked for them would come out with public statements IN TEARS over the loss they and the industry had just suffered.
So, why have over 70 Cobra models remained COMPLETELY silent after Bryan died? My guess is, their embarrassment at having ever worked for a disreputable bareback porn company like Cobra overwhelms their desire to make any kind of public statement...even a negative one. They probably just thought silently to themselves "good riddance" and let it go at that.
Will I would point out we do this in everyday life. If I read a newspaper commentary by George Will or Andrew Sullivan or Ariana Huffington thru a filter. I know their bias and POV intimately.
When you try to hide your identity and yet spin a story you are being disingenuous.
Robert Wagner/BB is very Germain to a discussion of why BB attacks Sean while defending Bryan Kocis.
If Robert Wagner is to face a Federal trial who will be the principle witness against him.
Sean Lockhart
Simple as that.
The 3 year vendetta started by Bryan Kocis and Robert Wagner is easy to understand in this context.
Sean needs to be prevented from testifying at Trial both at Joe and Harlows Trial (establishes his credibilty as a witness) and a later Federal Trial.
This is why BB's identity is Germain, he attacks Seans credibilty and says he lies all the time(all without proof) yet Sean Lockhart will be testifying at Joe and Harlows murder trial.
Its obvious the DA has no problem with Seans credibilty.
Of course BB likes to add at this point Robert Wagner did nothing wrong at Cobra Video, conveniently forgetting that Bryan Kocis testified at the September deposition that Robert Wagner was his personal assistant and a witness to all 2257 documents(docs he KNEW to be fraudulent)at Cobra Video.
To state RW committed no crimes is to say Bryan committed no crimes a claim that is demonstrably false.
To say otherwise is to defend Bryan Kocis and his underage Pornography.(which BB does incessantly)
This is why I have no sympathy or concern for Robert Wagner.
He is the one who entered into a criminal conspiracy with Bryan Kocis.
And he is the only one left to pay for Bryans crimes.
As for BB he is the only poster here who defends Robert Wagner and Bryan Kocis and yet expects us to believe he is a disinterested observer who did not know Bryan or Robert.
That is what strains credibilty.
Especially for those of us who remember Juicy Goo and Truth Be Told and BB.
Bondage Boy and Bio Boy fav nicks of Roberts and plenty of people know it.
He really should have picked a better alias.
jim,
I wonder if "the investors" that Bryan talked about in the emails you mentioned were made up b.s.?
I just say that because Bryan Kocis was SUCH a blowhard.
He was always bragging, making himself try to sound fabulous all the time [in his Cobra emails].
He got a lot in on those emails, major hate for Sean, degrade him- how rich BK was getting, what he was doing with the "cobra boys" etc.
He would write as if people reading it would be envious of this mess.
Major turn-off,
but I guess if your into what he was into you would be jealous??
I don't believe BB is a disinterested observer of this "very interesting gay saga" either. That does seem absurd on its face. I don't think BB even expects people to buy that, and I think everyone reads BB's comments through that filter, as DeWayne puts it.
But BB will never admit to being Robert Wagner or anyone else, because for the purposes of these threads and his blog he is anonymous. Like it or not, that is never going to change. So why keep going around and around with that argument? When there is a trial of Robert Wagner, and BB posts in those threads, THEN all bets are off! But until then, as I understand it, Wagner isn't even a potential witness at this trial. So does talking about him really shed light on the relevant issues here?
I really do hate the personal insults BB lobs at Sean and Grant and DeWayne and others. But I also don't like the way we let that hijack these threads, and I am not blameless there either. Now I will get off my high horse.
I just realized I probably don't know what I'm talking about as far as potential witnesses at the trial are concerned, so sorry if that was a mistake. I think we only have that limited witness list so far.
Will g, a great many things are within the realms of possibility. I am focused here on what is, not what could be or could have been. Suns made an unqulified statement of fact which was not true and therefore a lie. It would have been possible for him to say for example, "I believe, I heard or I understand that...." Then I could attack his beliefs, his hearing or his ability to understand. That is not what happened.
I did not call suns a liar. Those were your words. I said he lied, because he did. I was careful not to attack the poster but instead focused on his lack of substance, lack of logic and lack of truth, as well as his obvious lie.
You are right though, this would be a prime time for suns to "... just correct the misstatement of fact,..." That would be something for him to do since he is the one directly attacking individuals here.
Brent moves out, and Grant accepts that. And then they both grow stronger and more together or apart. Whatever, but then this tread has just turned out so neg. Even by the standards set around these parts, this is a little low ain't it. It is a little creepy to go to PA and Vegas and juicygoo and all that anytime Grant is mentioned. Mainly because we are not going anywhere new with that round.
Grant and Sean are both decent and polite when they make statments to the press or appear here whatever. Grant does not deserve the rake over the coals he seems to be getting when his name is mentioned. It's just not in good form and is mean spirited.
Unless I am reading too much into it, it is a rough.
"V.J. said...
jim,
I wonder if "the investors" that Bryan talked about in the emails you mentioned were made up b.s.?
I just say that because Bryan Kocis was SUCH a blowhard.
He was always bragging, making himself try to sound fabulous all the time [in his Cobra emails].
He got a lot in on those emails, major hate for Sean, degrade him- how rich BK was getting, what he was doing with the "cobra boys" etc.
He would write as if people reading it would be envious of this mess."
V.J., you are making Bryan sound like Joe!
I dunno though, I never got any Cobra emails, so, I'm not sure about that myself.
V.J., were YOU getting e-mails from Bryan? Or did you just see them posted somewhere?
Jeez, that's a little like you getting calls and e-mails from the unmentionable. You're full of surprises!
Quicky Sort--
I don't disagree with what you say here. But I won't let BB's pro-Kocis BS go unchallenged. Kocis knew what he was doing in filming underage teen males, using them for himself and special patrons. Why? To make a buck, not to meet the American dream, but for nothing more than greed and to satisfy a personal vice through the sexual exploitation of others.
So Grant and Sean both deserve a fair statement. You will note that Grant, on this post, does not buy BB as separate and distinct from Robert Wagner.
-off of the top of my head and going on memory-
one email- I took the Cobra boys to the Madonna concert- we had a table[?] by the stage- best seats in the house. She came out and was staring at us.
----
I am in a five star hotel penthouse suite overlooking Central Park [4 Seasons, Ritz??] right now with my cobra boys and am feeling so good that I will give x discount for the next x hours.
--How do you all feel about the idea of Brent Corrigan getting gang raped? ethnic guys?
Sorry - no fisting, cobra boys do not get fisted.-
I just bought the James Bond car-
etc. etc. etc.
just off the top of my head and yes jim he sounded like Joe, but worse IMO- capable of a lot of hate.
like bb
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:58:59
From: kingcobra@cobravideo.com
Subject: Re: Request
To: groy@removed.com
Grant,
I'm glad we were able to talk yesterday and at least initiate a
positive conversation to resolve this matter.
I've alerted Macias that your lawyer will be submitting a proposal to
him on Monday for review concerning our discussion.
Have a nice weekend.
Sincerely,
Bryan
Quoting Grant groy@removed.com:
> I sent you this message through myspace as a response to the note you sent
> after the depositions. I wasn't sure how often you checked myspace so I'm
> attempting this route as well.
>
>
>
> Bryan,
>
>
>
> I appreciate your comments! If you would agree, I would like to speak to
> you on the phone today. No recording, no funny business, just an honest
> attempt to come to a resolution to this dispute where we ALL can benefit.
> You are welcome to even have either Macias or Flora on the line when I call.
> I can call from my cell, which to my knowledge is difficult if even possible
> to record. I will call you at whatever number you provide for your
> convenience. I am confident you will concur with what I purpose.
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Grant
>
>
>
> If you would rather call me, my cell number is: number removed.
I have all his ugly emailers, both public and private! I will release them as necessary! Screw you RW!
Interesting!
Yes, very interesting; this email exchange can also be referenced in PC's Crab Catcher Transcripts, Part 24. That way you can see the context in which they arose:
http://handjtrial.blogspot.com/2008/07/crab-catcher-restaurant-intercept-part_587.html
Grant quoting the late Bryan Kocis' email, "No recording, no funny business, just an honest
> attempt to come to a resolution to this dispute . . . ."
The implication here is that Bryan Kocis uses unethical tactics in dealing with others--recording their phone calls and, most likely, having a personal assistant nearby to overhear conversations.
I stand with Grant Roy because the persona known as BB has stepped from behind his masque one too many times in trading comments. The other remark implies the type of violence to be used against the named individual. That draws scrutiny.
"will g said...
V.J., were YOU getting e-mails from Bryan? Or did you just see them posted somewhere?"
Will, I think those were periodic mass emails Bryan sent out to everyone on the Cobra marketing list, back in the day.
will,
exactly as jim said - mass emails.
One night [2004?]- I stumbled across a picture of Brent Everett online- traced it back to a site called Cobra video. I had never heard of them but put my name on the mailing list [thinking pictures of Brent Everett would be coming to my inbox :)-
that is not what came.
Emails from "KingCobra- Bryan" and they were disturbing,
I did not know what the story was but I followed the emails for awhile.
I found out pretty quickly a model went against the owner of the co. by stating he was underage and the wrath of this "king" was disgusting to say the least.
I did not know BC, never heard of him but I felt there was a real sick individual doing a number on this kid.
It takes a "different" type of person to be able to hate like that and not have consciense enough to know to stop [like bb] IMO.
"Screw you RW!"
you cant leave RW alone can you. a serious problem for you is that.
anyways, it will not change or undo the fact that YOUR the one who is screwed :)
bb, "YOUR" is the posessive, while "you're" is the contraction for "you are," as in, "You are the one who is screwed."
Everyone, please try to refrain from name-calling and personal attacks against fellow posters here, please.
And note too, that since Grant has recently become a more regular poster here...for the first time, the rule now kicks in and applies to him. Please refer to him by his chosen screen name of "Grant." Thanks!
Rob, I'm hesitant to even bring this up, but you have twice mentioned a threat of violence on this thread, and I honestly can't find anything that fits that description. VERY briefly just explain what you are referring to? Thanks.
"I would like to speak to you on the phone today. No recording, no funny business, just an honest attempt to come to a resolution to this dispute where we ALL can benefit. You are welcome to even have either Macias or Flora on the line when I call. I can call from my cell, which to my knowledge is difficult if even possible to record."
Rob, explain to us all how this makes you think Bryan is the one who records phone calls?
Actually, nevermind. Am not interested in hearing you spin this.
In these words Bryan is being assured HE will not be recorded. Which tells me the other person was known to record phone calls.
I'd have to agree with BB. Although I think it's fair to say he was requesting no recording by them as well, by implication.
There may be some backstory on this, someone in the past recording someone's phone calls (which in some states is illegal w/o everyone's knowledge), that we are unaware of. Who knows?
I don't recall any past accusations along these lines, by either side. And given volumnious accusations that have flown the known history of all this...that sort of omission, by either side, would be most peculiar IMO.
I think if you just stop the speculation and read and trust the words as written by one adversary to another, the truth is clear. Grant just wanted an honest communication.
Why that may have been difficult prior to that time is irrelevant.
Blogger BB said...
"Screw you RW!"
you cant leave RW alone can you. a serious problem for you is that.
anyways, it will not change or undo the fact that YOUR the one who is screwed :)
A preposterous observation and comment if you consider Mr.Wagner's legal predicament.
The last line reads as a threat of harm.
Speculate on identity rest assured everyone here is known. Aircards and wifi nodes afford nothing but a false feeling of anonymity!
-----------------------------------
VJ I was amazed at some of the shit Bryan put in those mass emailers! I remember the one about having Brent Corrigan gang raped in retaliation. This in an email that went out to customers! Its obvious Al Flora was not aware of what Bryan was writing.
Bryan had a sense of his own invincibility and entitlement. He felt he was untouchable and let everyone know it. He certainly told his Cobra boys that and his attitude with the customers was summed up best in this response.
"No worries! Sean will get his and he will learn if you play against me, I play to win, I ALWAYS WIN!"
Will G--
Simply the threat of physical violence and gang rape.
BB writes "Rob, explain to us all how this makes you think Bryan is the one who records phone calls?
Actually, nevermind. Am not interested in hearing you spin this."
Anymore than I am interested in your ongoing spin of the "diabolical" Sean Lockhart who is complicit, in your factless world, of being the proximate cause of Kocis' murder.
And since you laid a challenge, I respond gladly. Kocis was a self-aggrandizing, underage teen male raping pervert of questionable business ethics. Kocis is known to have hired goons to harass Sean Lockhart at public venues. Photos exist of the results of his business plan in action at Micky's. If a "businessman" hires goons, he is more than apt to monitor his phone calls after all Kocis thumbed his nose at the law. He is on record as having been overheard as stating "I got of jail free and can do it again."
"I would like to speak to you on the phone today. No recording, no funny business, just an honest attempt to come to a resolution to this dispute where we ALL can benefit. You are welcome to even have either Macias or Flora on the line when I call. I can call from my cell, which to my knowledge is difficult if even possible to record."
Rob:
The implication here is that GRANT ROY uses unethical tactics in dealing with others--recording their phone calls and, most likely, having a personal assistant nearby to overhear conversations.
Thank you for pointing this out - even though your version of who said this was twisted.
"I'd have to agree with BB."
No you do not. You could agree with Rob, or with the person who said it.
"Although I think it's fair to say he was requesting no recording by them as well, by implication."
You say this now when I point out who actually said what.
When you read the post to which I refer, your only comment was: "Interesting!".
Yet you said nothing when Rob passed his version and interpretation as truth - when it clearly was not.
That's not your usual style.
"Mr.Wagner's legal predicament."
so you keep ranting. prove it.
"The last line reads as a threat of harm."
not it does not. anyways let me elaborate as you brought it up. unlike you and other i wish no person bodily harm in any way.
i stand by my comment, he is SCREWED. sean has dumped him. he made threats to sean. he no longer can make money from BRENT CORRIGAN the ex hooker turned bback porn star. he is up to his eyes in a murder he raged war against online.
i'll elaborate more if you wish Dewayne. you and rob both see thing that nobody else see's and that are not there. you know my theory on why that is. if you forgot i'd be happy to refresh your memory.
Well, he specifically called it an "implication," thus not a "fact."
If he had said "we know for a fact Bryan liked to record phone calls" it is quite probable that would have piqued my curiousity, and I would have inquired more as to sourcing.
As I pointed out, the only fact about this we know is that no one, on either side, has ever accused the other in public of recording phone calls (that I know of).
"He is on record as having been overheard as stating "I got of jail free and can do it again."
ok if you claim so :)
And I agree with you, it wasn't a particularly good implication, in any case.
"As I pointed out, the only fact about this we know is that no one, on either side, has ever accused the other in public of recording phone calls (that I know of)."
agreed, and i agree with alberts last comment too.
rob made a big deal of this, which is nothing really. i did however want to point out the truth of who said what from that post.
he is up to his eyes in a murder he raged war against online.
should read:
he is up to his eyes in a murder, he WAGED war against THE VICTIM online and OPENLY spoke about WANTING THE VICTIM DEAD to the point of seeking out a cleaner as said in official documents.
No name calling please...lets try to refer to your fellow posters by something at least close to their chosen screen names. Thanks!
"he is up to his eyes in a murder, he WAGED war against THE VICTIM online and OPENLY spoke about WANTING THE VICTIM DEAD to the point of seeking out a cleaner as said in official documents."
Funny thing about that Caleb Carter tale is, bb...Grant in Vegas had a couple "cleaners" fall from the sky, like manna from heaven...
Like Grant said "y'all brought it up." And like Joe said, that was "the truth."
And as we also know from the CCTs, Grant flatly said no. Joe responses verify this as well.
Rather odd behavior for someone who was supposedly in the market for cleaners just prior to that dinner, wouldn't you say?
As this point, I'd have to say Caleb Carter stands a fair-to-excellent chance of being arrested for obstruction of justice, once the murder trial is finally wrapped up.
BB--
The Caleb Carter red herring originating in the sour grapes Carter had for Grant Roy's firing of him from working for LSG resurrected again. So much for the ironclad proof of Grant's looking for murder for hire.
Now you misinterpret Sean again. Sean is moving out of the home he shares with Grant and that home is also their office--separation in the living arrangements--to improve relations between himself and Grant. Their business continues and they still talk and interact.
I left a word out of this Kocis quote, "I got out of jail free, and I will do it again."
Explain Kocis' shrillness and demanding that Sean Lockhart not put him on speakerphone when contacting his former model to intimidate him even when it was obvious that Kocis was doing the very thing he was demanding Sean not engage in. Double standards.
Truly, Kocis was unethical and his threatening email which promises to rearrange Sean's teeth and mentions the Cobra investors is but one proof of that unethical behavior.
"Explain Kocis' shrillness and demanding that Sean Lockhart not put him on speakerphone when contacting his former model to intimidate him even when it was obvious that Kocis was doing the very thing he was demanding Sean not engage in."
OK, yeah, now this would be a fact claim, which would naturally lead me to inquire as to it's source.
Same for the "get out of jail free" quote.
BB said...
"he is up to his eyes in a murder, he WAGED war against THE VICTIM online and OPENLY spoke about WANTING THE VICTIM DEAD to the point of seeking out a cleaner as said in official documents."
BB, you had been doing relatively well tonight IMO, in avoiding ad hominem attacks and opinions stated as facts, until that statement. It is purposely and maliciously misleading. Jim and Rob have already pointed out the dubious source. But you simply CANNOT claim something as fact verified by "official documents" when it is nothing but an UNVERIFIED CLAIM that has been documented. Harlow and Joe made claims against Sean and Grant and ROBERT WAGNER that are documented and REFUTED. Your continued attempt to spin unverified witness statements -- this and those involving the "secret relationship" -- as being proven fact is what sends your credibility into the dumper.
"As this point, I'd have to say Caleb Carter stands a fair-to-excellent chance of being arrested for obstruction of justice, once the murder trial is finally wrapped up."
i do not believe he lied. other witnesses will confirm that if it ends up in court - which it wont.
JC also confirmed CC was speaking the truth.
"JC also confirmed CC was speaking the truth."
How so?
"...if it ends up in court - which it wont."
And why are you so sure it won't go to court? I would think that if we go to trial in January, Ben whatshisname will be called as a star defense witness for Harlow and Joe.
Unless of course he recants...or dodges service of process somehow...OR even the Harlow and Joe defense team deem him to lack credibility.
"Now you misinterpret Sean again. Sean is moving out of the home he shares with Grant and that home is also their office--separation in the living arrangements--to improve relations between himself and Grant. Their business continues and they still talk and interact."
rob, you have told us all where you get your information from. all the previous proven lies you posted as fact has taught you nothing.
in this i actually take sean at his word:
"...I know for a fact that I will not be allowed to just move on with everything I have worked for here; intact."
Sean goes on to talk about his current OBSTRUCTION. We all know who that is.
Sean knows for a FACT - HE WILL NOT BE ALLOWED to move on without the one who is trying to control him - and we all know it is impossible for that person to be BK.
"i do not believe he lied."
That is your opinion, and others obviously differ. But until it is thoroughly investigated or subject to cross-examination, and maybe even after that, there is no verification. So don't present it here as an established truth.
"...if it ends up in court - which it wont."
not the J&H trial. this was in reply to your CC getting charged with a crime - which would be his own separate court case.
"JC also confirmed CC was speaking the truth."
"How so?"
you'd need to ask JC, he said he confirmed it.
And further evidence of this horrible household animousity can be seen in the fact that Sean gave Grant a birthday cake laden with transfats, at the party just before that post was written!
""How so?"
you'd need to ask JC, he said he confirmed it."
When and where did he say he "confirmed it?"
"...OR even the Harlow and Joe defense team deem him to lack credibility."
that will happen to the other two main players in this saga - an easy job it will be.
you'd need to ask JC, he said he confirmed it.
Where did he say it?
"And further evidence of this horrible household animousity can be seen in the fact that Sean gave Grant a birthday cake laden with transfats, at the party just before that post was written!"
SEE!!!! lol.
JC wrote it on his blog shortly after the murder. He said he verified it from others who witnessed it. He also said CC is not a known liar.
"So don't present it here as an established truth."
I have no strings - do not presume to tell me what to do.
Name the article, I provide you with the link! Name it!
"Name the article, I provide you with the link! Name it!"
go find it yourself, or ask JC :)
I know the story. And, LOL! JC certainly did NOT verify it. In fact, JC had to go to an opthamologist the next day to get treated for eyeball sprain!
Here is exactly what he had to say about it:
"...And as he detailed this story to me, I rolled my eyes thinking to myself, "And so the idle rumors and accusations begin."
Now, is this unnamed and so-called "friend" just trying to stir the stereotypically gay pot full of drama or is he truly a concerned party? Who can say? But one thing is certain. He's going to be only the first of many with similar stories, be they conjured or authentic."
go find it yourself, or ask JC :)
Busted! Again.
You are unable to even confirm claims that should be the easiest to confirm. Why am I not surprised? It is business as usual for you. You make a claim, other have to prove it.
JC never confirmed such a story.
Liar!
yes ok if you say so :)
I just tried to go into the archives at JC's blog, but apparently you have to be a member to access them. So until BB produces the relevant text, I am going to assume Jim's quote was JC's assessment of CC's truthfulness. Not a ringing endorsement.
I think I recall reading somewhere that there was ONE other person present, who I seem to remember did NOT confirm CC's account.
BB--
That is not what Jason Sechrest is claiming now at all. He has said he acted hastily in relying on Caleb Carter's unsubstantiated remark. When that remark was being scrutinized, Jason decided to check its veracity. Carter told Jason that Tyler Mason was his source. By that time, not only had Jason contacted Tyler Mason but so had the PSP. Tyler Mason was rather angry at being tagged as the source for a remark he did not make, but worse, at a function Tyler Mason had never attended.
Your "facts" fall apart on the statement of a well known drunk who Grant Roy fired as being unfit to work.
Will G--
That other person was Tyler Mason, named by Caleb Carter. The problem with Mason was he was not present at the location claimed by Caleb Carter.
Did JC ever publish these new finding anywhere?
And while I am on the subject Will, it is in this same location that the "Brett" remarks regarding the backdoor Bergeron-Kocis deal are posted, the backdoor deal being a discussion, at that time, known only to Kocis insiders and not the general public.
Cadinot4ever was posting there at Anonymous and decided that all Anonymous and Brett remarks should be deleted by Jason. The British lawyer demanded that he do so. Jason told him no.
Enjoy the read at Jason Curious. I did. I made it my business to get the backstory; therefore, I concur with Brynawel's opinion.
Will G, you can find the article here. Or that way.
Rob:
Do you really want me to get into facts - namely yours?
Let me remind of of questions asked to you by others here:
YOU CLAIM: "Explain Kocis' shrillness and demanding that Sean Lockhart not put him on speakerphone when contacting his former model to intimidate him even when it was obvious that Kocis was doing the very thing he was demanding Sean not engage in."
JIM SAYS: "OK, yeah, now this would be a fact claim, which would naturally lead me to inquire as to it's source."
"Same for the "get out of jail free" quote."
The FACT you ignore these questions is telling. As USUAL, your 3rd hand information is WRONG - more LIES fed.
"Cadinot4ever was posting there at Anonymous and decided that all Anonymous and Brett remarks should be deleted by Jason. The British lawyer demanded that he do so. Jason told him no."
Prove it.
Thank you Brynawel!
Brynwal thanks for the link and here is another one. http://elmysterio.blogspot.com/2007/04/latest-dish-the-rumor-mill.html
I had a little blurb about this whole thing on my blog. You know the Calab Carter-Tylor Mason thing that Jason spoke of. Tyler sent me a email and asked me to correct my blog as he was not the one who started that rumer.
It seems that Caleb in one of his more delusional states made that comment and he used Tyler to back it up.
At the time it seems that Sean and Tyler were friends and Tyler was at Sean and Grant's home on the night in question and Caleb was not.
Tyler said that he never made the statement that Caleb claims he did and I will give Tyler the benifit of the doubt.
Oh and people Sean and Grant are going their seperate ways. Let them go and deal with their shit in private.
It is not the end of the world. Porn star relationships are doomed from the very start as are most gay relationships because the are based on sex and that is not enough glue to make a relationship work.
lets just move on!
Ah, worried about Jason are you?
Should have thought about that before you unwisely opined here.
Thanks for clarifying that, Elm and Rob. So CC wasn't even the supposed witness to this statement of Roy's, he was basically spreading a rumor. It seems JC had him pegged correctly as a "shit stirrer." Sorry BB, but this doesn't stand up at all. THAT's why raw witness statements are never to be quoted as fact. I'm not presuming to tell you to do anything but be accurate. Where is that JC confirmation you spoke of, BTW? It certainly wasn't in the link Brynawel provided.
And you all see what I mean when I say it appears CC may be in some hot water now. Lying to police investigators = obstruction of justice.
It could come down to whether, day after the Harlow and Joe trial is concluded, Melnick has a good cup of coffee in the morning or not.
"Oh and people Sean and Grant are going their seperate ways. Let them go and deal with their shit in private."
Like everyone did when it was Sean and Bryan? LOL.
"lets just move on!"
Speak for yourself. That was not your attitude when you decided to do your "who is bb" post and all your false RW claims - at the instruction of others.
BTW nice 2 c u posting again, hope u r well :)
"Lying to police investigators = obstruction of justice."
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from. First it needs to be established that it was in fact a lie. I can not and will not take the word of bloggers who have been proven wrong on so many other aspects with their claims.
Rob,
You STILL fail to answer Will and Jim's question. As you FAIL to provide backup, it is more of your smoke mirrors and bs. You are unable to prove me wrong on that.
You never know when to quit. You ALWAYS land yourself smack in the middle of your fat file of BS.
"Oh and people Sean and Grant are going their seperate ways. Let them go and deal with their shit in private."
Hmmm does not match up with Robs claims.
One of you is lying. I know which one.
BB wil you take the word of the person who Caleb has claimed to have said it?
Tyler Mason is Caleb's source for this story and Tyler denies saying it.
DA Melnick also discredited that statement from Caleb Carter as well and said it had no substance.
Caleb is a washed up hasben porn star who has a serious drinking problem which is the source ofmany of his problems.
Now BB, I know that you have issues with hookers,pimps, druggies and drunks and porn stars.
You your self have claimed that they are all liars and they can not be trusted.
Yet you believe Caleb Carter? Seems you only believe them when it suits your agenda.
I was about to say what Elm said, but he did such a good job I shant bother. :-)
Consistency in the report Caleb Carter who got it from Tyler Mason who Jason spoke too and that very Tyler Mason denied being the Caleb Carter source.
And Tyler Mason's own statement to the PSP.
Like I said, careful what you ask for.
You don't like being reminded of Cad's faux paux. I don't care if the British solicitor doesn't like it. Let's face it, good ole Cadinot4ever spread a big lie about Sean's age--the solicitor claimed Sean would be 22 now, but faded like summer's rose when it was proven he was 21.
Cad shouldn't tell others what to do. Causes issues.
I said it before but,
DAMN ELM,
Great to see you back!!! :)
I know nothing about Caleb Carter,
but seeing a video/photo of him recently. He looks awful, advanced alcoholism awful- very sad!
VJ Caleb was on MTV's True Life in 2006 in fact the MTV camera man was there to watch him throw up all over the sidewalk outside of Mickys after he was thrown out of the bar! Jim and I witnessed that.
Hehe Barcelona Jim not Chinchilla Jim ;)
Pic of brent and Caleb a couple of hours before.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q40/ddhsd/Misc%202/IMG_0005.jpg
"Caleb was on MTV"
dewayne, I see this everyday.
I had heard some of the stories about CC-
posing with the dui tkt etc.-
I saw his picture last week,
he looks older than I do-
he has that "pickled & fried" face look, that somebody in their 20's has to work hard for.
It is an average look for an alcoholic in their late 30's -
40's IMO-
not 20's.
Sad- you know exactly where it is heading-
Ouch!
Mean!
:o)
Post a Comment